English Writing Skills 9: Ellipsis and Ampersand (Part 2 of 2)
Learn about my Intermediate Writing Skills Course. Click here. https://youtu.be/l4llNxCvABI English Writing Skills 9 (intermediate/ advanced) Have you watched ...
Hello, Jennifer,
In the last (#10) statement:
'Telekinesis could be called a gift. This kind of power, however, would
make a person different, and while it may sound exciting, sometimes what we
want most is simply to feel normal, not "special."'
could you please explain the absence of a comma between the words "and" and
"while"? "While it may sound exciting" is a dependent clause. Shouldn't it
be set off by a pair of commas in the middle of a sentence? Could you
please refer me to a rule that covers this point? I know that in Russian I
would be obligated to use a comma between "and" and "while" in this type of
structure.
PS Is my punctuation in this post correct (especially in the sentence with
the big quote about telekinesis)?
PPS Best wishes to you and your YouTube channel!
+Siegfried Zaytsev To set something off with commas, means to separate it and distinguish it. We use quotation marks to set off words being used in an unusual way. For example, I the character George became upset when people grew scared of his "special gifts." I set off those words to indicate a different meaning of the word "special." Does that make sense? Regards!
+JenniferESL Jennifer, thank you very much for providing this very useful reference. I have another question. What does "set off" mean in phrases like "set off with commas" or "commas set off (something)?"
+Siegfried Zaytsev Hi again, Siegfried. There are different writing style guides used. They're explained here. https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/section/2/ Different publishers require different formats and they follow one of these guides. Good luck to you!
+JenniferESL Jennifer, thank you for pointing out that there is variation in the use of comma in English. This helps me to reconcile differences in punctuation in similar structures that I encounter. What would you say is the most authoritative guide or textbook on the American English punctuation? And one on the British English punctuation?
+Siegfried Zaytsev There is variation in the use of the comma in English. The key is consistency in one's own work. Writers also think about the flow of thought. Too many commas could create choppiness if those commas are not really needed. Not everyone uses a comma before "and" to separate two independent clauses. Useful links:https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/02///www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/020204whencommabfand.htm
+JenniferESL Jennifer, thank you for your explanation. My suggested pattern was "..., and, while" – a comma before and after "and." It is based on Russian punctuation rules, and, as you explained, it does not apply in English writing. In the second example you refer to, they do not use a comma before "and": "... to the ECB and, while now...." Why did they not use comma before "and"? By the way, should I have written the previous sentence with the question mark inside the quotation marks ("and?") and the one before that with the colon inside the quotation marks ("and:")?
+Siegfried Zaytsev Hello! "And" is a coordinating conjunction, not a conjunctive adverb like "however." Coordinating conjunctions join words, phrases, and clauses together. A comma would only appear before it. "However" can interrupt the flow of a sentence, and if it does, then commas are needed before and after it:1. It is a really interesting power, and I'd love to have it for a day. [joining clauses]2. Telekinesis and telepathy have not been proven to exist. [joining words]3. Magic, however, has been made into an industry. [interrupting a sentence]4. However, magic has been made into an industry.5. Magic has been made into an industry, however.I know you're wondering about "and while" together, but a comma between them isn't necessary. It can be a writer's preference, I think. "While" in our example is being used to show a contrast or express a concession. It's similar to "although" and "even though."Here are two examples in the news.When you go to these pages, use CONTROL + F to find "while." You'll see the first written like my example: "and while." The second is written with your suggested pattern: "and, while."//www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/metro-east-workers-put-lives-on-hold-while-illinois-budget/article_66bbda12-2111-52a5-9528-6f22e64a88c4.html//www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/greece-debt-crisis-while-europe-has-avoided-grexit-the-greek-economy-remains-in-intensive-care-10385331.html
I just wanted to let you know that your videos, and the way you teach, have
helped me more than anything else I have tried in my attempt to write
better. Punctuation finally makes sense now! Thank You.
+Bryan Heck Hi Bryan. Thank you for posting your comment. I'm really happy these videos have helped you. I felt that becoming an ESL teacher really improved my own writing. When you have to teach something, your knowledge gets stronger. :) By the way, I opened a self-paced writing course. It's for intermediate students of English, but I have at least one advanced student in the group. https://www.wiziq.com/course/110775-intermediate-writing-skills-course-with-jennifer I make the effort to give quality feedback to each individual on all writing assignments. I may also open an advanced course in the future, so that might be something you're interested in. Kind regards!
+Khoudja Mohamed Umm, you have 2 sentences there. (You are great Jennifer! I love your work.)
Ampersand.js: The Non-Frameworky Framework
Ampersand.js: The Non-Frameworky Framework Presented by Luke Karrys at JSLA (js.la) Ampersand.js is a highly modular, loosely coupled, non-frameworky ...
English Writing Skills 9: Ellipsis and Ampersand (Part 1 of 2)
English Writing Skills 9: Ellipsis and Ampersand (Part 1 of 2) Level: intermediate/ advanced Topics: - ellipsis (...) - ampersand (&) - review the names of ...
Mike Macaulay on Ampersand.js
A lightning talk at NebraskaJS, July 2014. Check out //nebraskajs.com for information on past and future more events.