+EP3mentalist Nah, it's a pretty simple matter. There's a difference between a one-time bad choice and a thoroughly fucked up life which consists of a vicious circle of bad choices repeated over and over again. The latter usually signals some mental weakness.In the end it boils down to your bystander reaction observing some more powerful party hurting or taking advantage of some weaker party. You can simply watch and say "huh, serves the sucker well, they got it coming!" Or you can try to intervene and protect the sucker from getting fucked, even if they don't seem to deserve it and aren't likely to be grateful for help (maybe they will curse you for it). You can come up with a scheme to make it more difficult for the wannabe exploiters to do their business. Guess which choice paints you a coward and asshole and which comes from the position of true wisdom/strength.
+clray123 Thats a massive cop out and you know it. Not planning ahead is not a disorder. If everyone had the same attitude as you there would be chaos because all you would have to do to get away with anything would be to say "I made a bad decision. cant be my fauly because i didnt think it through. have unrealistic fantasies and therefore its somebody elses fault"
+EP3mentalist The question of whether or not someone has a "mental disorder" can be decided by taking a closer look at their ability of planning/foresight.If someone is able to fully envision and describe the different possible consequences of their action and their likelihood beforehand, and then still commits to a course of action which is unlikely to succeed, in hope of off-loading the risk onto others later on, then he is a scum and should be punished for their villainy (much like our good ole investment bankers who did the maths before betting on subprime mortgages).However, if someone is foolishly imagining things, especially while being encouraged by others who are bound to benefit from such foolishness, and then commits to a self-harming course of action, then they are mentally ill or "stupid" and should be protected by the clever, in order to limit the total damage they might cause.The borrowers at those shops are demonstrably incapable of financial planning, as is evident by both the mere action of borrowing at exorbitant rates and also by other things going on in their life.So there's your answer to who is "mentally disordered" and who is not.
+clray123 No! Just no! Don't start saying that stupidity and selfishness is some kind of metal disorder. All you are doing is saying that nobodys actions are ever their own fault so any behaviour can be be justified. Don't want to pay back loans?... mental disorder. Want to steal?...mental disorder. Want to fight in the streets?... mental disorder? Fuck no! What exactly would you not blame on a mental disorder exactly?
+EP3mentalist But your aptly described "me me me and fuck others dog-eat-dog" mentality is a mental problem, it comes from somewhere, it's not cured by mere punishment. It is probably contributed to by pop culture and media, and it's also something I notice in your original proposal to let those individuals be ruthlessly fucked by the loan sharks.
+clray123 Tour first point is almost valid, that is it would have been valid decades ago. We have food banks, the NHS and sheltered accommodation for those who need it these days, an rightly so, so good idea but a bit late. You seem to still be confusing several points though. People with mental health problems should looked after by society couldnt agree more. The people im talking about as you well know, are the scrotes that just dont care about anything other than themselves. The me me me, its always somebody elses fault brigade. These people are the cancer of civilization and should be treated according. Now what other demographic do you want to through into the mix to try and score straw man points, youve tried it with immigrants and the mentally ill, whos next on the list of people im not talking about?
+EP3mentalist Nope, if they had elementary social support (e.g. food stamps, basic healthcare, some shitty place to live) rather than loan sharks to chase their fantasies, they would not be turning to crime. They would just subsist without being able to borrow money from anyone - and without being pressured into desperation.I see plenty of people like that, and it's a lesser evil for everyone involved to pity them. Some of them might even escape their fate and become respectable citizens one day, if given enough opportunity. However, most of them won't because of other problems (mostly related to drinking or mental illness, it seems).You cannot preach personal responsibility to a person who is basically penniless and also sick in the head. Those people don't get responsible by incarcerating and punishing them. If anything, they get angrier and sicker still.You say you will gladly pay for that - and why would you? Are you a sadist who wishes a world of tortured psychos around you, as long as they are (temporarily) hidden from sight? Do you realize what an upkeep of an inmate costs? Or are you just dumb in a way yourself and have a simplistic model of how everyone would learn "personal responsibility" if only slapped hard enough, contrary to all the evidence. Those people are continuously being slapped after all, and not getting better. And in other countries where they would be slapped even harder (where the loan shark could actually break their legs, for example), they would not be more responsible, they would just remain irresponsible cripples. Even if you have no empathy at all, you do not want irresponsible cripples or criminals crawling around, if only for aesthetic or safety reasons.
+clray123 You seem to want to bring immigration into the argument, I'm not going to comment on that as it is a completely separate issue. Now regarding people turning to crime because they have no money, wouldn't they be turning to crime earlier if they didn't have the loan money?, by your logic that is. Toss them in jail if they do, I am very happy to contribute taxes to pay for such things. We have been soft on people for far too long which is why people dont care about the law, but again I see this as a separate issue. These parasites have nobody to blame for their OWN actions but themselves and get no sympathy from me. It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, something our culture is forgetting. If you don't have money to spend, stop blood buying things! Even the most uneducated person can figure that one out.
+EP3mentalist Unfortunately, it's not that simple: if you just "fuck" those people, it's going to boomerang at you sooner or later. They will eventually, out of sheer desperation, start rioting and turn to crime. Then you'll have to pay for them incarcerated in prisons or (alternatively) let them roam the street and pay for your personal security.Those people may be dumb and irresponsible (as I wrote, most likely due to the circumstances in which they were born and brought up, it's not like an average person suddenly decides to become a bad borrower). But YOU are supposed to be more clever than them, which includes not allowing them to be "fucked" in your backyard to your own future detriment.So the real solution is rather to recognize the dumb and the predators as such and protect the dumb from the predators or even (if you like shifting the blame) from themselves, so as to make them less harmful. And the real long-term solution is to eliminate the circumstances which lead to stupid people being created (i.e. more education, which is only possible with some level of basic welfare and support from the higher castes - rather than simply fucking the unfortunate).There is a reason why people flee from fucked up countries to civilized countries and not the other way around. Making every place equally fucked up is not the way to go.
+clray123 If people don't know that a 2000% loan, when they have no money coming in, might get them in trouble then fuck 'em. Harsh, yes, but I'm sick of hearing about the hard done by, broke as shit plebs
+EP3mentalist Yes, they have the obligation to pay back their loans. However, loan sharks who charge usurious rates should not be allowed to do business in the first place. This way the problem of dumb people taking on and failing on dumb obligations would be reduced.
+FrupsIf you can spend so much time on this you really need to get a life.What is it about the - pretty innocuous - statement that it's ''Hard to take anyone seriously who introduces themselves with 'I'm from the internet'?" that has you so bothered you've been revisiting this for a whole day now?It sure seems emotional to me.
+brendan w I am hardly getting emotional. Your initial comment reads as follows:" Hard to take anyone seriously who introduces themselves with 'I'm from the internet'?"If you do not understand why I pointed out the seriousness of the video and the irrelevance of your comment, then I have nothing more to say.
+FrupsWhere did i say it was ''more important how someone introduces themselves , than that they are fighting against people that exploit the poorest in the society. ''?Please point this out for me as i can see no such comment.Try reading what i did write before getting emotional.
+brendan w from the fact that it apparently is more important how someone introduces themselves, than that they are fighting against people that exploit the poorest in the society.
+brendan w but you probably respect people turning a GBP 1,000 debt into a GBP 20,000 in one year. In a civilized country it is a criminal offence, but not in the UK.
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