In Allentown, PA, at the DCI Eastern Classic, the DCI Fan Network interviewed Music Percussion Judge, Jeff Prosperie. Discover his story, learn more about the ...
DCi Ep5: White Glove Services //www.dcis.com Hi Ladies and Gents, DCi Deb Dunne at your service again. Here at DCi, you the customer always comes ...
DCI In The Lot: Madison Scouts Drumline
The 2013 Madison Scouts drumline plays a section of their program, "Corps of Brothers - 75th Anniversary" in the lot at Muncie, IN on June 28. Attend a 2013 ...
The Scouts drumline was the only one I watched warm up, and missed
Pioneers, Troopers, and Blue Stars for it. They did a sweet warm up with a
buzz roll and later a diddle where they would play a two measure 16th note
pattern and add a buzz every time to the point where they had too many I
couldn't keep track.
I was so ready to leave a rude comment about how I don't like the finishes,
but both the drums themselves and the players sound so good I can't.
Absolutely amazing.
Renault Laguna 1 1.9dCi - rough idle problem (SOLVED!)
EDIT: Solved!! It was the fuel pressure regulator valve on the high pressure diesel pump. Valve was replaced with a new one from Bosch and now the car is a lot ...
Yes I did it as the warning light came up and injector fault made the car
loose 90%of its power.on motorway pedal to the metal and a truck was
overtaking.that was how I found my blocked pipes.injector fault can be
faulty but better is to check pressure sensors before taking fuel system
apart.just drove 20 miles in busy London streets and the engine didn't
hesitate once..many thanks
I will see that video :) I'm very happy to know that I helped you solve the problem :)Did you see my reply to your previous comment where I talked about the MAF sensor?
Just a little comment on your video and you helped me so much!!!you were
right the fitting was worn out and the switch was moving around.gr8 help
from you many thx
I'm very happy to know that I helped you solve the problem :) Thank you for your kind words. Another thing that I may suggest you to do is to clean the MAF sensor. You had oil going through it and, at this moment, it could be fully contaminated with oil. Take it out and use electric contact cleaner spray (the one that evaporates without leaving residues). I used one of the brand "kontakt" and it was very good. The results were outstanding in this 1.9dCi and in mine 1.9dTi. Now the air is metered correctly and the injection computer injects the correct amount of diesel, producing much more power and torque. The difference was specially notorious at low and high end RPMs. Low end torque is now very great (1500rpm (or less)-2000rpm) leading to greater fuel economy and driving comfort, and the engines now rev very happily above 3000rpm until you hit the ~ 4500rpm. Please note that in this 1.9dTi and 1.9dCi, the cars have fixed geometry turbos. In your case, with the 120hp version, you have variable geometry turbo and the results can be even more notorious because the turbo spools sooner at lower RPM and the amount of air metered is even greater. If you proceed with the cleaning, let me know about the results :)
Hi there.my engine is working like clock and does the job as it should
after the clean up.there is only one thing what puzzlers me and it is the
engine revs.when I am coming to traffic lights and press the clutch and
brake at the same time the revs drops to 800rpm and keeps down until I take
my foot off from brakes.the engine won't stall but it is annoying.any
idea??
Hi! I had the same or similar symptom with this car. It was the clutch pedal switch. That switch must be sufficiently pressed when the clutch pedal is in the upper position. See if the clutch pedal switch is in place and operating as it should - sometimes the switch gets loose, or the clutch pedal travel changes after a clutch master cylinder replacement, and the switch is not properly operated, confusing the injection computer. This can cause idle problems and other symptoms like "engine almost stalling after de-clutching to neutral" approaching traffic lights or STOP signs.If it is in place, maybe it is broken/not operating as it should. You can take it off (rotating 90º) and disconnecting the electrical plug. Test with a multimeter if the circuit opens and closes when you operate the switch. If you suspect that the switch isn't being pressed enough to be properly actuated by the clutch pedal, glue something to the place where the pedal meets the switch, making it higher to push further inside the switch piston.Please, after you try this, let me know if it worked :) Good luck with that.
Why dislike???easy people are idi0ts and your SOLVED is in the comment not
in the video.i do have my video about common problem with laguna dci engine
and people write stupid things about it...annoying you are trying to help
and morons are trying to be clever
Hi! Thanks for your kind words :) I just saw your video. It is great, and I left a comment on it. Are you experiencing some of this symptoms on your car? The video description has some details on it, but trying to help some people I replied them and added comments with further detail about diagnosing it. Hope it can help you.
Hi I have same problem on my megane 1.9 dci 2001,revs are oscilating from
750 to 850 approx. Car goes well but sometimes it wont go over 4000 rpms
Ican feel a loss of strength,also fuel economy isnt as well as I
expected,Ihave cleaned pressure regulator with ultra sonic cleaner but
oscilations are still there but its better than it was...so what can you
tell me about this is it same problem as yours,sorry for bad english
Hi! Thank you for your comment! Don't worry about the English, my native language isn't English also (I'm Portuguese). The important is that we can understand each other, and I understood you perfectly. As far as my knowledge goes, you wrote very well :) About your car's problem:It seems similar to the problem described on this video and video description. Maybe it's only the fuel pressure regulator that remains bad, even after the cleaning (I didn't know that cleaning could help. maybe I have wasted 80€ on a new pressure regulator for nothing...). I will ask you some questions to try to help you diagnose the problem:1-When driving, do you feel any engine power output oscillation maintaining a constant speed on a flat road? e.g. pressing the gas pedal gently on a constant position just to maintain speed, does it feel like you are changing the pedal position?2-What about exhaust smoke?3-Did you already check for problems in other components? Which ones?I would strongly suggest to follow this list, checking out the components that can be causing that idle and "lack of power" problem:1-see if the clutch pedal switch is in place and operating as it should - sometimes the switch gets loose, or the clutch pedal travel changes after a clutch master cylinder replacement, and the switch is not properly operated, confusing the injection computer. This can cause idle problems and other symptoms like "engine almost stalling after de-clutching to neutral";2-check for any air leaks/cracks than can exist in the air pipes/joints after the MAF sensor. Any air entering the engine after the MAF, is unaccounted air that can confuse the injection computer.3-clean the MAF (mass air flow) sensor with electrical contacts cleaner spray (it evaporates leaving no traces) and let it dry very well after re-installing it in the car. Residues can accumulate on the sensor giving bad readings, which can lead to lack of power especially in low and high RPMs. Also, residues can accumulate in the plastic mesh that protects the MAF sensor, causing air turbulence and oscillating readings, causing oscillating idle. If you suspect a defective MAF sensor, try to start the engine with it disconected (it may throw an error and put the engine in limp mode, but you can check if the idle goes constant. After reconnecting the MAF again (with engine stooped, and restarting the engine again, the error should go away).4-clean the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve. It may be very dirty and sticking in the open position/slow to respond, which can lead to poor idle, low engine power output under load and more visible smoke on the exhaust. After cleaning the EGR, try to see if it is operating properly.5-Check if the intake manifold after the EGR is clean or full of carbon deposits. Carbon build-up can be strangulating/restricting the air flow to the engine and causing bad idle, lack of power and lower rev/rpm limit. If it is very bad, you need to take it out, clean it, and re-install it with a new gasket.I think you can start from here :) Hope you find out what is causing it. Please, do not forget to post here what it was, to help other people and improve my knowledge.
People may be disliking it as your video shows just a running engine, you
would have had a better response if you had put a before & after video on
explaining what you did, I only looked at your video as I`m having a rough
idle problem on my Megan 1.9 dci and this video doesn't actually show
anything other than a running engine ( that still sounds as if it has a
slight misfire ) Your car may be running better than it was but I don't
think your problems have been fully cured.
If nothing I said in the previous comments was of any help to you, please share a video with me showing the symptoms. I will be glad to try to help you pinpoint what is causing your car's problem!
About the problem of your megane, the symptoms are the same as in my video text description? For example: If you also have fluctuating engine power output while driving the car with the gas pedal in the same position (lets say 20% depressed), it could also be the pressure regulator valve.Let me explain even better:In my case, I was getting idle oscillation and engine output power oscillation with the same period (around 1second between power peaks), independently from the engine speed (RPM). If it was a problem related to injectors/misfire, the period would be related to the engine RPM.Another important thing: If the engine RPM only acts up for a few moments after you press the clutch pedal and the engine returns to idle (like it was going to stall), try to check if the clutch pedal sensor is correctly installed and touching the clutch pedal assembly when the clutch pedal is fully released.
Hi! Thank you for your comment :) I really appreciated it.I originally made this video just to show the problem, asking for help. This video shows the annoyingly fluctuating idle that my fathers car had, and I backed it up with a full text description listing all the symptoms it had, and all that I know could be causing it. I could have started by getting the injectors cleaned, or by changing the common rail fuel pressure sensor, but I got lucky when I requested the mechanic to start by installing a new pressure regulator valve. It was an instant fix :)I do all the maintenance and mechanic interventions/other repairs on my cars and in my father car, but I was not confident to start "messing" with the common rail diesel system, hence the reason I went to the mechanic.Well, after the problem was solved, I edited the description of the video and added what was the cure to the problem, in my case.
Please find this product at //absupply.net This video is to bring you a closer look at the DCI 81 US32 dust proof strike. So, the 81 is representative of the fact ...
RENAULT CLIO DCI - most common engine running problems
A few of the most common and annoying problems that make you fall out of love with your Clio. I've experienced a couple of these myself. Took my little diesel ...
Sorry I meant to say that I bought the car in Jan but yah the electric
fault came on in like a month and its really annoying as it keeps cutting
the engine off while driving(its still not fixed)on low revs and now this
issue of coolant and oil leaking..I bought the car from a private dealer so
I am afraid he will refund it but I will certainly look into it as its
getting worse.I just called my mechanic and he is coming in 3 days to have
a look .P.S.i just had full service done on this car for ££
I recently bought a Clio 1.5dci 80 HP from 2002, because i did not have
more money to buy something decent. The repairs costed me 3000 €. First the
Bosh pump was faulty and never repaired in warranty, the injectors were in
need of refurbishing and the whole line system with tank needed washing out
because of the metal particles were in the whole system because Bosch pump
was tearing. After that repair I have done a regular oil service, and after
40 km the piston "slipped" and no more characters
Sounds like you could have a sensor problem. When any of the sensors start
playing up, they cause the car to go into limp home mode - ie: it runs but
not as well - just enough to get you home, or to a garage. The engine
management light will show or flash to tell you there is a problem. Your
fault codes need to be read at the garage, and possibly the faulty sensor
replaced. As to which sensor... only the fault code will tell you that.
Have you joined the RenaultForum link in the *show More* box?
Lewis i have got a new shape clio 06 plate just had new timing belt the lot
right and full mot just got insured on it today and now it wont start it
kicks over then stops when u lift thehood u can hear like a warning noise
that wont stop apprently its the fuel pump alarm because fuels going
backwards and forwards and wont start had to disconnect battrey because it
wont stop no warning lights on dashboard put new battrey in car key and
nothing i can do till garages are open any thoughts onwhatsup
for COLD START PROBLEMS: If your car doesn't start well in lower
temperatures = fires up and stalls, runs really rough on idle, takes
several preheats to get going then runs fine after 30 seconds -1 minute,
try cleaning the pre/post heating system control unit usually found on a
bracket next to the battery.This unit relies on battery charge and coolant
temp to tell the ECU whether it's a hot or cold start. If cleaning doesn't
help, change the coolant sensor You can also get a garage to check it
@qeefu As I posted above on these comments - you could be suffering from a
''sticky relay'' problem. But which relay exactly ...? sorry I don't know.
But it could just be the glow plug relay This would give you trouble
starting the car. Try unclipping it and cleaning the connectors etc with
something like brake and carburettor cleaner (as this removes any
containments but evaporates fully). The relay is on a bracket at the side
of your battery, a square box about 2 inches with a wired connector
@qeefu Sorry I didn't answer sooner - you have exactly the same car as I do
- same year too :) Sounds like you are either talking about the glow plugs
or the coil - both are orange lights one on top of the other. Have you
tried checking the forum I linked to? It really is a great place for
information about Renaults. If you join (as I did) you can ask some of the
very knowledgeable people on there and with any luck they'll give you an
answer. It's a huge forum with zillions of pages of info.
@soniclady89 Meant to say re: the sticky relays. It's caused mainly by the
age of your car. Renault cover the pins of all electrical relays in a
protective but conductive barrier at the point of manufacture. Over the
years this degrades and buggers up the sensitivity and conductivity of your
relays and voila ... you experience some very annoying electrical and often
intermittent problems that are almost impossible to cure by expensive part
changes. Cleaning the relays usually solves it. :)
Very informative video although the TDC sensor fault can indeed be
diagnosed using clip, the fault showing is usually "flywheel signal" if the
sensor is open or short circuit, engine speed can also be monitored in the
parameters page, if when cranking the engine over engine speed reads zero
rpm then you know you have a sensor fault. More than likey a failed
sensor/corroded connector but its also very straight forward to check the
continuity/resistance of the 2 wires between ecu & sensor
I got a 51 clio 16v around 80,000 miles ,drove it for a month and it
started cutting of while driving on low revs showing electric fault sign
and revs going up and down ..have to stop everytime and try turning off and
on again while pushing the throttle and revving the car and then its gone
and you can drive fine and after few yards on low revs it comes back
again:( ... called a mechanic he changed spark plugs and fiddled with
engine oil refilled coolant(which is apparently leaking)
Lol ... yes Clios over a certain age do start having problems and mine
(2003 Clio dci) has suffered most of them..though fairly inexpensive to fix
- if you know how - hence this video. Yes - rough idle on start-up (you'll
find the colder it gets the worse this problem will be!) My Clio did the
same all through last winter - very annoying! After changing a few bits on
the car which didn't solve the problem - we changed the coolant temperature
sensor, which cured it. Continued...
Hi, sounds like you may have a head gasket problem - that's what the
'mayonnaisse' looking stuff in the oil filler cap is - a mixture of water
and oil. You could also have a leak in the radiator/coolant system that's
leaving the system dry. I'd get it to a proper garage and get it looked
at... might cost though. How often have you had your car properly serviced,
you know - oil and filter changes etc. You got to look after your engine,
it's less likely to go wrong then.
I have a problem with my 2001 Clio 1.2 16V for a while now. The RPM drop on
1st startup of the day. They drop so low that the engine almost stops. Then
after few seconds (3-5) the RPM stabalises. If i turn it off and on right
after, it will start fine. The valves were cleaned, sensors are fine and
computer doesent show a single error. There was an additive added to the
petrol to clean the nozzles. Spark plugs were also changed. Im thinking it
might be the coil pack?
he said engine oil got mayonnaise kinda stuff in it and said it might be
coolant leaking or oil ,put some k-seal in it ..I could not find k-seal but
put similar product in coolant (which was completely gone i need to top it
up AGAIN !!) and some in engine oil and now i tried driving it back again
its started making clicking noise and smoke started coming out from exhaust
smells like burning i have to stop and get back home :S its getting
annoying now PLEASE HELP !!!
sorry just noticed you replied now i no longer have the car had to fight
for a refund almost took them to court car continued to do that and they
said all clios do it.. and i could take key out and car would stay running
completely put me off driving it i had to stall it to turn it off was not
trustworthy enough anymore :/ and that noise they said it goes off
eventually its just the fuel pump but everyone i said says it shouldnt make
that noise
Very sorry for my late reply. Yes it does - am looking at my copy now it
says: ''Haynes Service & Repair Manual Renault Clio June 2001 - 2005 (Y to
55 plate) Petrol AND Diesel. Models covered by that manual = Petrol engines
1.2L, 1.4L & 1.6L Turbo diesel engine 1.5L Thanks for watching the video,
hope it was helpful AND that you joined the Renault forum linked in the
show more box - for that you won't be sorry :)
Our clio 1.5 dci carried on revving even without key in ignition and after
very smokey...so replaced turbo, then noticed what sounded like a big end
bearing had gone....found a replacement engine (£60 known runner)....did a
thorough engine change....clutch,filters,oil,belt (although same
injectors)....on starting, the engine "ran away"...still smokes
(blue).....could the problem be the TDC sensor?
HT leads if the problem would make the car run really rough. The coil sends
the juice to the spark plugs to fire.. if this was faulty, again... a rough
running engine. (misfiring) Have you taken the car to a garage to have the
fault codes read? It could be a glitch which they could clear (just the
code) or it could be a sensor problem. The garage should be able to tell
which damn sensor is faulty.
hi there. I have a Renault Clio DCi 1.5 .2003 when i turn the key to on
position, the middle orange sign is not lighting up. if I execute this
process for a several times the light finally appears and then the engine
starts. I think that the problem is in electricity system but I don't know
where exactly. i will be very grateful to you if you would give me some
suggestions. thank you in advice.
Taking your car to a garage where they will attach it to a laptop (for a
price) and clear the fault codes that are making service and engine
management lights flash. Having fault lights flashing (if you're in the UK)
is an MOT failure now and anything that should work on your car that
doesn't is included as well. (thanks EU!) Glow plugs are tricky to change -
easy to break and expensive to buy
i have 96 model renault. My car has two problems. One, when I start it up,
it makes sound like suddenly you stop a hard speed car and that sleeped.
Then it works perfect until i speed up over 60. SO when i speed up and make
gear 4 or 5 then its make some sound like gra gra gra gra gra gra gra all
time. Sometimes it does not also. Please tell me whats the problem and how
to solve it.
Clicking sounds like a relay problem. The relay for the wipers IS behind
the glovebox... whip it out, take it to your local parts place, and see if
you can get a new one. As for the power loss ... hmm, might be a blocked
EGR valve and associated pipework - MIGHT! Video shows how to do this
yourself - link in the show more box under the video.
@Lewishabebe2 It's also known as the glow plug relay. You can ONLY get them
new from a Renault main dealer - or used from a car breakers yard. Renaults
suffer from something called ''sticky relays'' so it is well worth cleaning
it. Cleaning mine fixed my cold start problem a few weeks back. Good job on
the video btw :)
Reaction to Carolina Crown 2013 DCI Finals Win
Watch in horror as I dance like a little girl who has to pee when Blue Devils is announced in 2nd place in the DCI World Championship finals in Indianapolis, IN.
+Hustler LT Hi on the 1.5dci injectors the code is just below the leak off nozzle on the injector, here is the image from google as an example, //i.ytimg.com/vi/peUkPfbr7G8/hqdefault.jpgPlease let me know what DCI varient you have as the 1.9dci code is differantKind RegardsLuke
+David Lhost Hi David, The injectors you have on your 2.2dci are differant, yours are pencil injectors with the coil at the top. Mine on the 1.5dci are pencil injectors but use peizu crystals inside to make the 100+ volts to make them open. The 1.5dci has a sticker on the injectors with the code: Image //www.chiptuning06.de/resimler/renaultcl-1362246928-2774.jpg on the image there is the code that starts with EJBR Etc that is on the 1.5dci injectors.On your diagnostic delphi interface does it say how many digits the code should be David?Salut David , Les injecteurs vous avez sur votre 2.2dCi sont differant , les vôtres sont injecteurs de crayon avec la bobine au sommet. Mine sur le 1.5 dCi sont injecteurs de crayon mais cristaux utilisation de peizu intérieur pour faire les plus de 100 volts pour les faire ouvrir . Le 1.5 dCi dispose d' un autocollant sur les injecteurs avec le code : Image //www.chiptuning06.de/resimler/renaultcl-1362246928-2774.jpg sur l'image , il est le code qui commence par EJBR Etc qui est sur la 1.5 injecteurs ICD.Sur votre interface Delphi diagnostic est-il dit combien de chiffres du code devrait être David ?
La voiture ne démarre pas et quand je vais sur delphi pour reprogrammer il
me demande les code injecteur comment faire pour si qu elle démare et quand
je vai dans l autre menu. Ça marque injecteur 1 non pris en charge avec le
code 7f2111 un truc dans le genre
+David Lhost Hi David, It should be a longer code, The injectors on the 2.2dci im not too familar with, However the code for coding should either be on the top of the coil or etched in on the body. I would just try other codes, but from memory they should be letters and numbers.Salut David , Il devrait être un code plus , les injecteurs sur l' im 2.2dCi pas trop familiers avec , cependant le code pour le codage doit être soit sur le haut de la bobine ou gravé dans le corps. Je voudrais juste essayer d'autres codes , mais de mémoire ils doivent être des lettres et des chiffres.
salut moi je doit reprogramer les injecteur sur une espace 2.2 dci sur les
injecteur il a pas de bague il a des numero sur le plastic noir quand je
mets ces numero dans le delphi ca marque intruvable comment je doit
faire???
+David Lhost Hi David, if there is no codes on the injectors, you will just have to let the vehicle idle or use the vehicle and eventually the ECU will alter the fueling for the vehicle, Any other questions just ask ;)Salut David , si il n'y a pas de codes sur les injecteurs , vous aurez juste à laisser le ralenti du véhicule ou utiliser le véhicule et, éventuellement, l'ECU modifier le ravitaillement pour le véhicule , d'autres questions il suffit de demander ; )
Hi Ged, I had purchased mine of ebay as a china clone like many of the others on ebay and most of the videos on youtube are of the chinese software.I had purchased mine at £120 inc postage way back in 2013. I have seen them aslittle as £40 including shipping on ebay, they are either housed in a case like mine, some are housed in the delphi ds150e cases with bluetooth etc, some even in the same cases as the ford ids vcm 2 advertised as Cdp pro etc, It is pot look i imagine now as some of the interfaces have cheaper boards and resistors etc, Ask as many questions as possible about the item if they have any pics of the boards etc and google wich are the best boards in the interfaces. The interface i have runs the 2013.1 software im alittle scared to update to the later software due to there being problems with the interface communicating with vehicles after updating software and firmware.I should imagine it will code injectors on a traffic, i find the delphi software works rather well on alot of the french stuff I.E Renaults, Citroens and PugsAny other questions please ask awayKind Regards Luke
+stav plaskas Haha no problem, I have been there my self with the injector codes. Thats why i made the video as garages charge a fortune for fitting new injectors and charge you for coding injectors in. But it's not hard at all. I would suggest putting a new fuel filter on as well if you have new/Recon'd injectors fitted. The vehicle does run abit better but the ecu will sort the fueling out even after you have entered the codes due to carbon build up etc around the injector nozzles during usage etc.Yeah no problems just let me know if you get stuck and i will see what i can do ;)
luke i cant thank you enough, your a life saviour............stupid me....there is 2 sets of numbers. 8 on one side and then as you go round with a slight space between them another 8....lol 8 + 8 = 16......man the space between through me off. Should be a piece of cake now, i got my delphi scanner yesterday now all remains to do is write the code down and then enter it on the scanner....i scanned it today and it gave me 4 injector codes but i think the codes i got out are from the old ones just need updating. They had quoted me 800 quid to change them and i managed to do it for 140 for a set of four reconditioned injectors...the vehicle starts now but im sure it will run even better when i enter the codes.....Thanks man i cant thank you enough
+stav plaskas Hi, the code is a 16 digit code so anyone one of the codes at the top under the High Pressure pipe will do aslong as it's a 16 digit code.Luke
i found one of the old ones and at the top under the high pressure pipe there are two sets of numbers and then there are another 4 sets of numbers in the middle of the injector and one of the numbers has a qr barcode next to it.........confused now lol
+stav plaskas Stav PlaskasHi the cylinder number 1 starts from the gearbox side of the engine. So if your looking forward of the vehicle the gearbox is ln your right and the timing belt side is on your left.So it goes from right to left as regarding cylinder numbers. Starting from right 1 , 2 , 3, 4 and finishing with number 4 on the left side of the engine closest to the timing belt side.Yeah you shouldn't need to remove the injectors to read the code, you should be able to see them while they're in the vehicle, i find a torch is helpful as well when doing this as it just brightens everything up much better.Any more questions let me know ;)
thank you so much, they look exactly like the ones on my scenic. I all ready fitted 4 new ones in so i might need to remove them again to see the code as its on the neck of the injector and the code might not be very visible from the top. Also for cylinders 1-4 is it cylinder one at the left of the engine and cylinder 4 on the right or they start cylinder1 on the left then 2 3 and then 4 on the far right. lol i hope that makes sense
+stav plaskas Hi the code is located on the top of the injector underneath the High Pressure Pipe.//image.made-in-china.com/44f3j00HQGtEYWaeRcU/Ejbr02101z-Delphi-Common-Rail-Injector-for-Renault.jpgI just did a quick google so i could show you, on the image on the URL it's the top code of the injector as the middle code on the injector is the serial number. If you need any more info let me know. If the injector hasn't got a code on it, in all honesty i wouldn't bother too much as if the vehicle is left on idle the ECU will calibrate the fueling for the vehicleLuke
Renault 1.5 DCI
Injector replacement on a Renault Kangoo 1.5DCI using a genuine Renault repair kit. Injecteur remplacement sur une Renault Kangoo 1.5DCI l'aide d'un ...