+Gabriel Corniel A few different podcasts from the Joe Rogan Experience. I heard Sam Harris, Eddie Bravo, and I think the other guy was Greg Fitzsimmons.
As much as I think BJJ is useful against unarmed opponents, if the guy
pulls a knife that BJJ training literally fucks you over. The worst
illusion is thinking you have enough training to not get beat.
+CitrusLizard .....You really are thick between the ears. It wasn't an insult, it was an observation. You struggle to make a real counter point so all you can do is criticize my being long winded and attempting to dissect my method of argumentation, rather than my actual point. Therefore, trying to sound smart, rather than actually making an intelligent argument. I'll save both of us the trouble though by just blocking you.
+hzuiel I don't have to try to sound smart. If that is the worst insult you can come up with I feel sorry for you. The use of the word martyr was for emphasis. When someone says it's hotter than the sun they don't actually mean that the temperature is hotter than the sun. Similarly I am not insinuating that by being some tweaker's punching bag you will in reality gain 72 virgins in paradise. I don't want to keep going back and forth with you on this. I know better and I'm living just fine with my "lack of understanding." If I wanted to have an intelligent discourse I would do so with my friends. You are neither intelligent nor friendly. As a bit of free advice. Don't let the person you are arguing with know they are getting under your skin. It just might keep you out of a fight.
+CitrusLizard Trying to sound smart doesn't actually make you smart i'm afraid.Do you really think trying to save your family from a person is martyrdom? Possibly you don't know what a martyr is. "a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs." Nobody is romanticizing anything, there is the possibility that a situation could arise where your best option is to stall the intruder so others can get away. I was pretty specific about the conditions there too, and it's just one of a million possible scenarios. Maybe in another scenario i would have the means to kill the person. My whole point was listing examples of a situation where your solution doesn't work, because there are too many variables in reality to say "oh well if you're in danger just <insert x>" or any other equally stupid and narrow minded thing to say. It wouldn't be the first time you failed to understand the simplest of points though. Last paragraph off topic? Verbose maybe, but not off topic. Surviving conflicts can come down to far more than basic ideas, and starts often long before a physical life and death altercation, and ultimately broadens out to much more than just self defense, which is nothing more than "survival" in a specific situation. I'm pretty interested in surviving to live my life so I look at a lot of ways to keep myself living, both on the preparation side, and what to do in a specific situation. If you're determined to discard everything you don't immediately recognize as useful, go right ahead. Hopefully you don't regret it one day.
+hzuiel In debate there is a term for your style of argument. It's called spreading and it entails taking quantity over quality of the arguments. The flow is impossible to follow. The what if scenarios are non germane, the ethos appeal is inane, the entire final paragraph is so far off on a tangent I had to make sure I was still on the same video. What you quoted me saying as a straw man is not a straw man. You could argue it is not inherent to BJJ, that would at least be a logical counter. Finally the self defeating logic of your entire argument is there are a multitude of other techniques and skills that can be used in self defense that do not have the inherent flaw I pointed out in BJJ. You even conceded this point."What if your objective is merely to stall a maniac while your family escapes, even if that means that you do ultimately "get beat" but your wife and kid escape and live to see another day?" Really? I fear you have a hopelessly romanticized view of self defense and violence. If that person poses a threat to you or your family your goal should be to kill him not "stall". Martyrs are only useful as a piece of rhetoric. You said you have a gun. Use that. It works a hell of a lot better than any martial art.
+CitrusLizard I didn't use a straw man, because you are specifically arguing that bjj isn't effective against someone with a gun or knife. Well no shit sherlock, and nobody said it was. That's why your bull shit is a straw man, you aren't addressing anyone in particular that has made a ridiculous claim about the effectiveness of martial arts. You however have made your specific points and I make my counter point. Do you understand the difference there? You may not see it because you are in internet argument mode, but you are so woefully ignorant it's hilarious. You don't get the points being made in the video, you are arguing against an imaginary person who doesn't really exist and offering counter points to something nobody ever claimed. Your points themselves don't make any sense because of your narrow point of view that you are coming from. A lot of the guys i train bjj with are in corrections or law enforcement. They are armed with multiple weapons, have other cops backing them up, wear vests that are knife and bullet resistant, and they see every day nearly, how real fights go down, and the devastating effects that weapons have on people. Yet they still feel the value of physical conditioning, bjj, wrestling, muay thai, etc etc. I wonder why that is. Because they're wiser and more experienced than you, that's why. They've seen enough scenarios to see how and when in certain situations, they'd be better off with some training and conditioning. I mean seriously, straw man? me? I can quote you and point out why your thinking is narrow and wrong. "if the guy pulls a knife that BJJ training literally fucks you over."If someone pulls a weapon suddenly in ANY situation it is likely a game changer. Your implication is that if you train BJJ you will automatically have chosen to get in close to your opponent, thus making yourself an easy target to hit with this recently unveiled weapon. In this way the bjj training backfires("literally fucks you over"). However you are making an ASSumption. Nobody says anywhere that i know of, that if you train bjj, the first thing you should do in any situation, is tie up with the opponent. Every situation has a different reaction required, and part of self defense is identifying what the situation calls for. You should never assume an opponent is unarmed and act accordingly. The police don't, neither should anybody else. It's no different than being one of those idiots that thinks if you have a gun you will use it all willy nilly. The same as i wouldn't pull my gun and start shooting in every situation, i also won't necessarily use bjj in every situation. "The worst illusion is thinking you have enough training to not get beat. "Who said that bjj training means you think you have enough training to not get beat, or that "not getting beat" is the objective? "My point is that people use weapons in the real world and BJJ is not equipped to deal with that. If you want a best bet answer to dealing with weapons it's running. " Nobody said bjj is equipped to deal with that, and I have repeatedly pointed out that I and many other people who train bjj, and martial arts in general, do not rely on them as their only means of self defense. Again nobody has said that running isn't a perfectly valid option, or that you can't run if you train bjj, or that you won't because of some inflated sense of ability that you think comes with training bjj. I don't know a single person who trains bjj that if you asked them, would say that if they were unarmed, and an attacker had a knife, they would choose to try and grapple with them, instead of running, in a straight forward, 1 on 1 situation. More than that, i don't know of any bjj teachers running gyms that would tell you to choose grappling over running in any situation where running is an option. The way you respond to a threat is not always the same either, which is back peddling to that objective. You are talking about "not getting beat". Well what if the object is don't get raped, by your drunk boyfriend that you know is unarmed, who just crawled on top of you while you were sleeping? What if your objective is merely to stall a maniac while your family escapes, even if that means that you do ultimately "get beat" but your wife and kid escape and live to see another day? What if you are surprise attacked, and are on the ground before you even have a chance to run? What if you are unarmed, but have the opportunity to surprise attack an intruder who represents a threat to your family, but without any conditioning and training, that element of surprise might not stop you from losing the fight? What if you are cornered and running isn't an option? What if the opponent has such an upper hand in size and being armed, that the only options really are die or barely survive, and a bit of training is the difference between those two? What if the opponent is a faster runner than you and really dedicated to chasing? There are way more considerations for self defense scenarios than just "will this be effective if X+Y=Z/Q² ". The ultimate goal in the situation varies, a million little factors can vary from situation to situation. Maybe you're forced to grapple them, and your choice of grips or the location of your legs and body actually blocks them from reaching for the weapon they have on them. You can what if all day long, it still boils down to one thing.Doing what you can to increase your odds of success(however success is defined in that situation). This can include things people don't usually even consider when it comes to self defense(or survival in general), like learning conflict resolution, how to deflate situations and the psychology behind it. Physical fitness and conditioning. Choosing certain colors of clothing, cars or other things that don't stand out. The types of car, and other similar things like not having flashy rims, to reduce the likelihood that it will be noticed and targeted by thieves for car jacking. Knowing what areas are the most dangerous parts of town and avoiding them. Carrying a flashlight so you can see in a critical situation, and potentially blind an opponent. Knowing what areas are not safe after dark. Not drinking to the point of not having the mental faculties to look after yourself, or the coordination to protect yourself, when in public. Having the outside of your house well lit with motion sensing lights. Having signs up for security alarm and camera(which has been shown to reduce the likelihood of break ins). Having a security system with a keyfob that that has a panic button on it. Practicing home fire drills. Replacing batteries in fire alarms, and having electrical inspected periodically. Keeping basic survival supplies in the case of an emergency like a bad hurricane, earthquake, etc. Keeping first aid supplies, knowing cpr and first aid skills, being aware of common items that are mechanical or chemical hazards in homes. There are so many ways to die(even obscure), there is a television show called, 1000 ways to die. Survival isn't just about running away from other people, it has a million components that start from the very most basic foundational level, and work their way up all the way to conceptual.
+hzuiel I laughed a little bit when you accused me of using a straw man argument and then proceeded to use a straw man argument. All of that shit you are carrying around sounds heavy.
+CitrusLizard Did you actually read what i fucking said? Yes, we understand there are situations where it just won't help. Listen to me carefully. It is only about increasing your odds of survival, and you can employ more than one method. Like i said, i carry a GUN, and often steel baton too. Usually have my work knife on me too. I have a cell phone i can call 911 on. I always have the option to give them what they want and hope they don't hurt me. I don't just learn bjj and expect it to save me from anything and everything.Nobody is arguing that people don't keep their weapons hidden sometimes(all though not EVERY time). There's no fucking reason to even bring it up, because it's just one of a million scenarios you can concoct in your head of where you need different types of strategies to hopefully survive. It's literally impossible to predict the future and be prepared for exactly the threat's that will come your way. You could build your house on stilts to avoid a flood and it gets hit by a tornado instead. It's the same with self defense, all you can do is prepare yourself the best you can to give yourself better odds of survival. Being physically fit, and knowing a few things you can do to try and get the upper hand or at least survive, in various situations, is just part of playing the odds. You could faithfully attend martial arts classes your whole life and die from a rare form of cancer, nothing in life is certain. Do you understand what a straw man argument is? It's essentially when argue as if the other person said something that they didn't, which is what you are doing. You are arguing as if the whole bjj community sells bjj as the be all, end all, of personal safety, and it can protect you from anything including ice ages, meteorites, spontaneous combustion, polar bear attack, cancer, diabetes, and down syndrome. No one that i know tells people that bjj can protect them with any degree of certainty against a person with a gun. Every self defense seminar i've seen, tells people to run away if it's possible to do so.
+hzuiel You are never going to see the weapon from distance. No one brandishes and then walks up to you they will always close the distance and then pull the weapon. The problem with BJJ is you see this guy coming, think he's unarmed, clench up on him and then get stitched up the front with the knife he had in his waistband. You have no idea what the other person has and you need a reactionary gap to allow you some chance of reacting. There is no martial art that will save you from a guy with a gun and no martial art can keep you from getting cut. The only situation where you can't run is the one where you are on the ground with him in guard trying to pull off some BJJ submission.
+CitrusLizard Why do people just continually say this kind of crap. Yes we know bjj is not going to save you from someone with a gun, or even guarantee you will survive a knife fight. It's all about increasing your odds. Do you actually think you need to emphasize that the best answer to dealing with weapons is running? We all know that. No part of bjj training says you must refuse to run and lay down on the ground and start trying to roll when someone has a knife. What if you can't outrun them though? What if there is no way to run, no escape path, and the assailant is between you and potential safety? Again it's about increasing your odds of survival. If they have a knife, and you are trapped or can't run fast enough to escape, the strongest part of your body is your legs, and the most armored place on most bodies is the foot. You might keep yourself alive by keeping them at bay with the range of your legs from your back, or maybe even sweep them and THEN run away. There is also nothing to say that you can't train other martial arts besides bjj, or train martial arts AND carry weapons for self defense. I have my CCW permit and I train bjj and some wrestling, judo, kickboxing. Do you think running or using other means of self defense are mutually exclusive with bjj? Don't be stupid and say stupid things. If i had to run, I'd run. If i had to pull my gun, i'd pull my gun. If i have to use a steel baton, or knife, i'd use those. If i'm unarmed, and i had to fend off a smaller opponent with a gun, i'd likely give them whatever they wanted. If i'm unarmed and I had to fend off a smaller opponent with a knife, with no direct path to escape, I'd more than likely use some martial arts to try and escape or disarm/incapacitate them. If I'm unarmed and I had to fend off a large opponent with a knife, with no direct path to escape, I"d more than than likely grab any nearby object to protect myself with, and if none available, I'd probably go to my back and use my legs to keep them from stabbing me in the head neck or torso, and maybe stand a chance of escaping or surviving long enough for help to arrive.
+CitrusLizard I totally agree that running is the best defence. That doesn't mean grappling can't be an advantage.If you're being held for example, grappling experience will teach you how to get out of many bad situations.
+Mishibar This is not a "my martial art is better than yours" argument. My point is that people use weapons in the real world and BJJ is not equipped to deal with that. If you want a best bet answer to dealing with weapons it's running.
Well you can make that same argument against any martial art if your opponent pulls a weapon. And don't give me that krav Maga or systema speech. Show me some real life video examples of where it actually worked.
140 of the Greatest Joe Rogan F'Bomb Quotes (UFC & MMA)
2007-2012 @Joe Rogan Joe Rogan Talks UFC Mixed Martial Arts, MMA. Some of the Best Joe Rogan Moments Cut by: Jay S (2012) JoeRogan.Net GSP ...
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This man is pure evil. He is charismatic like the devil himself. Sex,
drugs, rock and roll, and all of you fans are in danger of eternal
damnation. I will pray for you all.
I read a book once written by a Hell's Angel member that said the only reason they wore swastikas, 666, pentagrams, etc was just to scare people. They didn't believe in any of it, they really didn't know much about the stuff. All they knew is that people were terrified of it so they used it. It was for shock value.Same thing pretty much applies. When you come to the point and realize that Jesus, Satan, and all that stuff is fake, yet so many people believe in it and live their lives by it, you can't help but to utilize it for some reason or another.
+Dimitrije Petrovic If everyone around you believed Santa Claus was real and condemned you for speaking against Santa, how would you feel and what would you do?
One thing I didint like about doakes was that he had all this hate and
grudge pointed at Dexter for like no reason at all, granted he may have
been right about Dexter but you don't curse at someone 24/7 just because
you don't like them, it just felt really forced if u ask me
+Nor Norranun haha. I wish they would have expanded on doakes, he would have been a good rival to dexter. doakes was a killer but wore the role of "soldier" and "protector" to justify what he did, as exposed by his killing of a former war criminal.
+Wanda Villalobos One of the best moments in ALL of television history.
MMA Overdrive Episode 09: Funniest Quotes!
This week on MMAO we find out what happens when muscle wins over mind as we look at some interesting quotes from MMA history. What's your favourite ...
One man tried to compete BJJ in our Dojo
He came and asked for a MMA fight in our Dojo at Estrella Team. He was like Rickson Gracie quotes about anyone who doesnt practice BJJ: I am a shark, the ...
I see no fight here..... I see a attempt at opening with tkd kicks......
then all I see is boring lying down, one guy lying on the other for 10
minutes while unable to finish opponent off, boring, he probably only
tapped because he got bored of lying around all day and didn't want to stay
there for 2 hours! lol..... seriously need to learn some finishing blows in
bjj ...... not realistic just to lay still and flat on someone and call
that fighting (requires no stamina, just fat body weight, no training or
conditioning, just lay on someone and stay still/boring/not fighting)
...... you cant do that in real life..... lie on someone and expect to stay
there holding them down for hours until they get bored.... even if you wait
5 hours laying on top of them and nobody prys you apart in that time the
dude will still be pissed and hit you as soon as you get off him 5 hours
later! lol
+Kevin Picton You are an idiot. You know what, no I am not going to argue, you are just an idiot. No martial art is perfect including BJJ, but most of what you said is incorrect. Just stop posting, you are embarrassing yourself.
+Allanrpsx which one? ....if its that Brazilian BJJ one then they are EXACTLY the same lol ......and I aint even trolling at that comment too, they literally are the same aside from a few tiny differences like catch keeps tighter in and knees up and tucked tight into opponents body instead of being sprawled on some moves like in bjj.....but fuck all this wrestling shizz, its only rare situational that you ever get to use it and that's why I only do 1 lesson a week of it instead of making it my main :P
+Kevin Picton I actually feel sorry for you. I was f**king with you before but now I just feel bad. You're taking this whole conversation seriously. SMHI'm out.
+Kevin Picton I think generalizing all American martial artists as fat is an over exaggeration. Then you say I don't train and in the next sentence you say I'm fat like all American martial artists. Which is it? I'm dying to find out.
+mhia4 you don't train. your so fat you cant even get off the couch let alone into a gym! ....plus no oe takes American martial arts seriously anyway.....birthplace of mcdojos....we seen your fat martial artists
+mhia4 sorry, but please come to England first....you don't live here, you dot know English first hand.... your clueless like all americans, like a baby thinking the 1 way of English is the only way, totes ignoring the 1000 plus different styles and variations of true English, some of which English people themselves cant even understand (Yorkshire is fucking gobbledygook!)
+mhia4 I don't need to look it up....because I live in England and were im from THAT is the term lol .....you cant say anything about it if your not from England yourself :P ....you only know tiny fraction of English, go to Yorkshire, you wont understand a fucking word mate! lol
+Kevin Picton You don't train or English dude. Over exaggerate is redundant. Take your time, look it up, then respond. I know you aren't too tired from training. Hahaha
+Zimmermania! actually, the term I was looking for in English IS over exaggerate.... as used by every English person in England...or at least where im from in north of England :P .....learn to English bro!
+Allanrpsx oh, so you think me training 5 times a week and can only slot 1 catch wrestling class due to training multiple mixed martial arts elsewhere is not training? ....cool story fatso, bet you sit on fat ass all day and don't do shit near as much as me! lol
+mhia4 haha, if you don't believe I train.....go to wigan, go to mel corrignas, and tell them they cant roll and that they cant train people in your opinion.....they will choke you out, and I will watch :P .....why I don't say I wouldn't? because im not good enough, I only do 1 lesson of that a week because I dot train it as my main art, but as a "just in case someone forces me to floor" art instead.
Yeah so when people roll it often looks just like that. The BJJ guy did pretty good actually, if you've ever been the recipient of a rear naked choke you'd understand why and how that fight ended. It's not choreographed like in a movie. Don't sit there and claim you train because you don't. We can all tell by your comments. just dont
+Allanrpsx you don't know what your on about! lol your just a television watching fanboy, while I actually go out and do stuff and point out every arts weakness :) ....because every art has its weakness and its up to you to find and try plug or make up for it..... your obviously not a martial artist, just a UFC television watching fanboy that believes in the "be all end all" bullshit
+SubFlow22 obviously American, obviously cant recognise certain ways of typing called over exaggeration. I over exagurate the way I did because I find it boring and unskillfull compared to actually fighting and spending ages getting in shape! lol which I consider to be true martial art. I call wrestling lazy, and it even doesn't work sometimes but people ignore the plain simple common sense facts about it which doesn't work and claim it is be all end all and works all time, which no martial art does what so ever! lolI do catch, its basically same as bjj but we don't wear pajamas and we don't claim it originated from brazil! lol ....I take stuff I learn from that and try it against people who don't do wrestling and so don't know were to pre place their hands to make it easy for wrestler..... the fact remains clear, you still need a guard up to protect yourself when on ground wrestling as most people don't place their hands and arms were you want them to as they are usually too busy punching you or getting in a punch guard position themselves.... this was found using wrestling on strikers..... they dot play ball, they do whats automatic to them, which isnt what wrestlers want! lol thus it makes it way harder trying the stuff on normal people.... who don't place hands where you want them to like the wrestling drills! lol .....the same arguments are always used against strikers when wrestlers look at strike arts, so don't worry, not totally biased. just reversing and using same logic back at wrestling lol
+Kevin Picton STOP! Put on your wife beater and go back to your local podunk bar where your drunken, slobbering buddies all respect you as a source of anything martial. You have obviously never tried BJJ before - don't claim otherwise, it's painfully obvious from your post. You are correct on one point: The fight you just saw here required no real stamina or conditioning. That's the entire point of BJJ: Simplicity and efficiency. Finally, no one expects you to lay on top of someone for 5 hours. It only takes less then two minutes for that choke to become fatal.It took a total of 1:47 seconds to finish this dude without breaking a sweat.
+Kevin Picton I'm sure the arm around the neck had nothing to do with it.
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