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+Two Frame Studios Do it! Come over and film all the amazing cosplayers we have on the old continent :D

+Cephalopod51 And sorry, Cherokeetrace and BBG are one and the same.

+Cephalopod51 Yer right Chief Dan George made the movie, You spoke of One flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Will Sampson was spot on. I liked him too as Ten Bears in The Outlaw Josey Wales. He died too young and too soon.We must be twin brothers from different mothers, LOL! I LOVE the Flashman series, was introduced to it by a British Sailor in Hong Kong when I was in the U.S. Navy. Great reads. George Mac Donald Fraser did the screen plays for the 70s Three Musketeers and the sequel The Four Musketeers. If you haven't already read it check out his novel Mr. American about a Nevada prospector who goes to England after striking it rich in 1909. Very much along the lines of Flashman, in fact GENERAL Flashman makes an appearance in the books beginning. Have to include a line from the him from the book as it's pure Harry: "I'm eighty-eight next May, and I attribute my longevity to an almost total abstinence from tea."Fraser was on my short list of people I'd like to have met, sadly I won't be able to in this life.Another book I read in high school that I'd like to recommend is Old Fish Hawk by Mitchell F. Jayne. Would've made a great film with George or Sampson playing the title role.I too enjoy discussions with those like you who like a good read or film.

I have yet to read Return of Little Big Man, but I've read that it's also very good. There are some other books I recommend. It's called the Flashman series by George Bernard Frasier. It involves a British bully and coward of the 19th century who accidentally becomes a hero. and witnessing many famous historical events. One book, Flashman and the Redskins, shares a premise very similar to LBM.I learned something recently. Thought the film simplifies the book, it gave LBM more attention recognition and consideration than it had when it was first published. Chief Dan Geprge originally wasn't cast as Old Lodgeskins until the actor's son recommended him for Penn. If Chief Dan George hadn't been cast, the wouldn't have been the same for me. I absolutely love that old guy a lot. Thanks again for the response and the discussion. It's always great to have common ground and good discussions with somebody. : ) 

+Cephalopod51 Have read your post several times just to enjoy your depth and enthusiasm for LBM, it's more than obvious that both have touched and influenced you. What Berger has Crabb do to Snide IS realistic as it's obvious that Snide is patronizing Crabb (which makes one note the name Berger gave him: "Snide".) and Crabb could be returning the favor. Ironically that's how many such as Buffalo Bill Cody and J.B. Hickok got much ( BUT not all.) of their reputation by reporters who wanted to sell stories not the truth.I was in high school when I first read it and it's presentation of the Cheyenne culture, the contrary warriors was and still is, fascinating .The scene where the woman "inspects" Olga then makes a sign indicating she is a woman, the look on Old Lodgeskins face was anything but stoic. LOL. I think one of the points Berger was trying to make is that we're all human and it's our culture and traditions that make us different and can cause us to be adversaries whether we want to be or not. Berger kept a neutral stance where the director of LBM and DWW did not.BTW did you read Berger's sequel to LBM? I have not.

Good idea. Let's discuss. ; )I have yet to study both LBM and DWW extensively, both in film and book. The DWW book is probably better than the film, but LBM in both book and film just covers much more territory, especially in the customs in the time period and the characterization of Jack Crabb. Even though the mainstream white civilization of the US during the 19th century is portrayed in LBM as being ruthless and aggressive against the Plains Indians, it shows that there were, as Old Lodgeskins would say, "Human Beings" among them.LBM's portrayal of Wild Bill Hickock is an example. He may have been a ruthless gunslinger, but his personality was very human, and I liked that he still remembered Crabb (despite their meeting only once in a very awkward way), and gave him money to clean himself up. Some of Custer's men displayed more sense than Custer himself, and even questioned his orders which were "impetuous" and downright Old Testament. Even Crabb's old employer, that charlatan with the eye patch, had some humanity to him despite his unethical business.  Olga made for quite a Cheyenne Brave squaw after being kidnapped, and it still makes me laugh to see her being married to Younger Bear, and giving him a hard time (and this was the guy who trained to be a Contrary warrior). Although Lodgeskins believes in treating things which living or dead as being alive and worthy of reverence, the Cheyenne Brave do show arrogance on their part as well., Lodgeskins admits in the novel that the younger men of his tribe are impatient for vengeance, and often raid and kidnap, and forget to make a ransom for the people they kidnap. Crabb's old tribesmen probably would have killed him, if were not for some of his friends and Lodgeskins, who still accept him despite his mistake in leading the military party to one of their camps. Granted, the film version condenses the story, and alters some historical battles to act as a allegory for the Vietnam War. Still, in the novel, Berger intentionally alters historical details about the Battle of Little Big Horn and Custer to to demolish to myth of the Old West. Furthermore, he goes further to suggest Crabb was a very skilled liar, and has the historian who interviewed him, Snide, suspect Crabb of lying to him. I'm still satisfied that Crabb makes Snide, the self-proclaimed man of letters, look like an amateur by comparison to Crabb's authentically told story. There's much more to LBM that I need to catch up on, but it's a damn well written book and well-made film, and few other works have come close to LBM. Tons of old stories involving American Indians, be it Pocahontas or Last of the Mohicans, are in dire need of the same attention to detail and irreverence as LBM has showed me. LBM has been one of the few films and books which some American Indian authors think get things right. Another story they think portrays American Indians right is One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Next, which I think is cool.I need to study the book some more, but it's fun to discuss with another enthusiast. Thanks for the discussion!

+Cephalopod51 I also ask your pardon, shall we start over? ;) I think there were a lot of Jack Crabbs that remain unknown to history. The tragedy was that both sides WERE human but unwilling or unable to bend, the lifestyles were too radically different. Strongly agree that LBM was more realistic then DWW. What discrepancies did you note?

I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing it up. It was my mistake for quoting Jack Crabb's blunt line at the end. I only quoted that line, because in your earlier post, it seemed that you were generalizing and belittling the story in a similar way as Ralph Fielding Snell, the man interviewing Crabb, generalized and belittled the Battle of Little Big Horn and Crabb's experiences. I probably put the line in as a reflection of the tone I perceived in your last post, but now I see that it was inappropriate. Sorry about that. I'm glad to know that you are a fan of the original novel. 

+Cephalopod51 Just once I'd like to get a reply disagreeing with my post where the person presents their counter views like an ADULT. Having read and enjoyed Berger's novel, we might have had a discussion, a chance to find that we may agree on some things, expound on things misunderstood or disagree about, that is until I got to the end of your post and you got all juvenile. Not worth the time.

+Brian Bois Gilbert You think Little Big Man, a film where Cheyenne Brave men dress like women, eat boiled dog, and talk about sex, is like Dances with Wolves? If that's the case, then you really missed the point of the movie. If you think the story is historically inaccurate and simplistic, try researching the events which are covered in the film, and then read the original novel by Thomas Berger. The portrayal of the Cheyenne Brave in the film and book is considered to be way more accurate than the portrayal of the Indians in Dances With Wolves or in any other film. And the film doesn't portray them as being majestic or perfect: it just portrays them as being human, which most Westerns forget. The book and film additionally portrays the Old West more accurately than most Westerns. If you don't believe me, then, as Jack Crabb aka Little Big Man , the narrator of this story, would say,: "go to hell."