Forbidden fruit the ethics of secularism Videos

You're right I saw another report about one in Texas being exposed. Will have to follow up on that and see if anything is done about it. 

Completely disowned. They asked what she wanted for Christmas and she said nothing but love and acceptance and got no response. Their behavior is TOTALLY consistent with scripture and is a living example of why Christianity is so fucking horrible!

+Forbidden Fruit Is that really your response?? I don't claim "to be once and for all, categorically proving" anything. My original comment stands on what it says for what it says.

+Blackmark52 You stating that my video does not prove anything is not proof itself that my video does  not prove anything. You present no facts to back up your claim that my video does not prove anything. See two can play at this fucking game!

+Forbidden FruitMy criticism is still valid. Your video did not even attempt to prove anything.No one video has to be fully exhaustive of the topic, but each video you make does stand on its own merit. And do you not see the irony in using the assertion that I have no right to comment unless I've watched every thing you've ever done in your defense of a video that focuses on just two verses of the bible?

+Blackmark52 Try to understand something. This is just one of 70+ videos. I cannot cover every point of contention in one or every video. My Channel is for people who have an interest in hearing all of my views. Unless you watch the rest of the videos then you cannot comment accurately on what evidence I am bringing to the table!

+Forbidden FruitSorry, I don't bow to anyone or anything.In case you missed the point of my comment, it was that claiming to prove anything with nothing but the bible is a problem for atheists just and much as it is with theists.

Because I am the one true Messiah and my word is law! Now bow your knee to me or suffer!

+Chris Carter You would first have to have a point for me to miss it. We could sit here all day and argue your subjective opinions about what the bible is saying but I have better things to do. Thats the problem with the horrendous writing in the bible. In context or out its too easy to speculate on whats being said. I take it literally you are trying to INFER things from the writing. I am not going to argue your inferences. As for the fig tree dont even get me started on "choice" that goes to free will something the bible clearly states that we dont have. Go read your book again and come back when you have some idea about what you are talking about!

+Forbidden Fruit  You've missed the point. Why is it wrong for someone to be upset about a holy place being turned into a pawn shop, or maybe you think it's okay for a cancer center for children to be running a pawn shop inside the center by visitors and parents, or maybe you shouldn't be upset for someone to open a pawn shop inside your home. You conclude that it was merely buying and selling, yet you ignore that the type of buying and selling resulted in 'robbers/thieves/raiders attracted to the temple. He was merely trying to keep the holy place holy.And your are correct, He used the fig trees to teach a point about unfruitful people. If he had made the tree to bear fruit how could be have made his point? And wouldn't that have discarded choice if he makes people bear fruit?

+Chris Carter Wow...you really are a dipshit! How's that for peaceful. First: You misquoted me! I said, "I dont just disagree with religion I fucking despise it."Second: Why hold Jesus to a higher standard than myself? Well lets see here...maybe because he claimed to be GOD, to be sinless, to have lived a perfect life so as to be a worthy sacrifice for our sins, because he made the fucking rules. I think that is a pretty good reason to hold him to a higher standard than I hold my lowly self, dont you?Third: You clearly dont have a fucking clue about the scene in the temple! Let me educate you with a bit of scripture.   12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[e] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’[f]”Jesus did not drive out robbers he drove out people who were simply doing business saying that they were attracting robbers!Fourth here is some more evidence of what a fuck head Jesus was,  Matthew 2118 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.Matthew 2121 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”In the scripture above mister peaceful destroys a tree because it happened to not have a figs on it when he was hungry and then tells his disciples they can do this and anything else believe in prayer for. Why not just use his magic to make the tree bear fruit? Let me guess because he wants to prove some point with vague ramblings. No this is all nonsense!Now hopefully you can see the REAL TRUTH! Your welcome!

+Forbidden Fruit  " I just don't disagree with relgion I fxxxxxx despise it" "I feel a call to militancy is necessary..." are  peaceful statement by you? Why hold Jesus to a higher standard than your own?Your attitude towards Him is proof that truth divides . It is proof that what he said has come to fruition. BTW, where is the evidence that Jesus was throwing a shxx fit when he over turned the tables? Context is ignored once again. There is no indication in the text that he was throwing a tantrum. In fact, he drove the 'robbers' (it says 'robbers') and then he overturned the tables. If you came home one day and found that drug dealers had set up shop in your house would you not "drive them out" and then "flip over their drug changer tables"?

This is a pathetic argument! I am not speaking peacefully? How peaceful was Jesus when had a shit fit and flipped over all the money changers tables??

+Forbidden Fruit Thanks Mike! I've been waist deep in political platforms, mandates, models and promoting my agenda as possible.., My awkward video got a response from a guy who wants to take on the political world, so having some dialog w/him...recruiting is my current objective

+Jenny Blank LOL...well if you ever need a mouthpiece to promote a topic for you, I'm at your service. I havent forgotten about the Hangout. May try to test out my Galaxy Tab S for that today!

Well, Mike, you know my position....I like my Atheism Militant , my religion extinct, and my politics active and Reformist...but I want someone else to make the  promotional videos....lol

+Benjamin Brown I agree that a progression is definitely the more popular transition from one belief to another or to a lack of belief. It certainly has been so for my girlfriend who is currently in a state of renouncing her faith in a progressive way. I dont understand her process but then again I was not raised with this and never suffered cognitive dissonance on account of evidence that countered my beliefs. The fact that you have raised is what has made me question whether or not my very Militant brand of Atheism is the most productive way of exposing people to the truth. For better or worse, at least for now, its who I am and I think its quite clearly displayed in my videos. Thanks again for watching and commenting!

+Forbidden Fruit I think that is very well put-as a former Christian myself, I actually had a very hard time understanding the minds of the moderates around me who did not seem to take the bible as a literal, god-breathed document. I didnt even have a distinction between extreme and moderate as a matter of fact; people either believed in Jesus or didnt and the only spectrum after that was the spectrum of how much bible one knew. So I definitely appreciate where you're coming from there-having said that, obviously I don't know you're experience but I assume that you would probably agree that for most people, it is not a light switch. In fact, I would even assert for many (if not most) people its not even a choice. Its more of a realization, one which gradually sets in over time. My own experience was certainly like this; I didnt just decide to be atheist one day. Over time, I realized I was feeling much much differently about a lot of things and eventually I admitted to myself that the building blocks of my faith were collapsing. Again, I think you would agree that is the case for most people, and I think its fair to say that, as unfortunate as it may be, thats probably the way society has to be led into a new state of being-one without religious bullshit that focuses on the human experience. 

I appreciate your comment. My experience however was one very much like the flipping of a light switch. I believed when I became a Christian that the only way to believe in a thing like Christianity is to believe that the Bible is inerrant. That remains the only acceptable form of Christianity in my mind today. Either you accept it as total truth or it is useless. So to that point. Once I was able to admit that there was no logical way that the bible could be inerrant the default position to follow is one of Atheism. This is why I see moderates as an equal or greater threat. They have the capacity for instilling something that is actually nothing and yet equally if not more damaging than something. That is to say they are people you claim a belief in God and try to live their lives in such a manner and try to enforce their lifestyles on others without even realizing the fact that they have no true religion at all because they dont even agree with everything their religion purports. This is why these people cannot be tolerated and why they are no better than extremists and are not an acceptable stepping stone to Atheism!

Godless Mom, I certainly hope that you are right. Sam is undoubtedly a clever one and if he has made a mistep in the past I have not found it. The only work he has produced that I have not been a major fan of was his book, The Moral Landscape. It was the first of his thought processes where I found myself disagreeing on a personal level. My personal beliefs however dont devalue his point because it is more of a philosphical one. His comments of late seem to be drawing on that philosphical view but maybe I too am wrong. Maybe we will see something coming from Sam in his own words that will clear up just exactly where he stands on the topic of Religious Moderates and Reformists!

...but you're not.Wrong my dear.

+Hitchens Argumentum Well said!!

+Astrid Lakota Well then I hope he comes to his senses and realizes that if he tries to rephrase or change his initial comments to try and get 'them' to understand, it will be even worse because they'll then say he's backpeddling. You cannot compromise your ideals when it comes to religion no matter which sect/cult. 

Yes I agree with you Hitch, I saw the show with Bill Maher & I think Sam is acting a bit too worried about what people may think of him and therefore has gone "soft"

+Astrid Lakota Like I told FF and others - I think Harris is attempting to settle things down after getting such harsh treatment for the PC (politically correct) assholes after his discussion with Ben Assflack (as we call him) on the Maher show. In the past Harris voiced exactly what you say here. Plus, in his book he is quite clear about not tolerating tolerance so to speak even with the so called religious moderates. He took great pains to explain why. So now he's doing a 180 which is disturbing.

Thanks for viewing and the kind remarks!

I have rational hate for all religion, this is not a phobia ! I agree with this guy & like him I love Sam Harris but I have no tolerance for any religion, there is nothing good that comes from any religion !

+Darin Simmons OMG...Umm yes my children are exposed to fairytales and are told that they are FAIRYTALES. My boys did not dress up as Anna from Frozen, instead they were Batman and Spiderman. They chose to dress as two FICTIONAL characters that they KNOW are not real. Yes, I agree with Sam Harris' book "Lying" and DO NOT lie to my children even about Santa Claus. Fantasy is an important and integral part of human life. BELIEVING in fantasy IS NOT. My children still have fun with Santa Claus. They ask Santa to bring them presents and Santa does. I have pictures of myself dressed as Santa eating the cookies and milk every year. So my kids get to enjoy the fantasy of Santa without buying into the ridiculous and somewhat creepy idea that a jolly old fat man slides down their chimney! They know that I am Santa and they engage in the roll play of it. At least my youngest does. When he grows out of an interest in this sort of thing then we can move on when he is ready and yet I will not have damaged his trust in me by perpetuating a lie when he was too young to know any different!

+TomFynn I got nothing else.  I agree on everything you said.  Thanks for the conversation.

+Darin SimmonsA good thing that is done for theological reason? That is known as obedience.

+TomFynn If I understand you correctly, it's a combination of (im)morality and ignorance and that either is sufficient as a cause of harm.  From a different angle.  What about when a good thing is done for a theological reason?   It is, by your definition, the right thing for the wrong reason.  Is it dumb luck that a good thing came from a harmful source?  "We bring this food to the needy in the name of some random diety".  Does it have a different value then?

+Darin SimmonsTheology is in principle infantile wishful thinking. It is in principle only upheld by ignorance and stupidity and  an inability or even unwillingness to tell fact from fiction.No, they don't get a free pass either.

+Darin Simmons"Why do some fictional things get a reprieve and others dont?"Because the morals of Harry, Potter, Star Wars or LotR are light-years above those of the bible. Because no one tells children that Middle-earth is real and they end up in Hell, if they speak Black Speech. And because anyone who runs against a pillar on platform 9/10 of Kings Cross station gets rightfully laughed at.

+TomFynn What about Harris example of Jainism, even extreme Jainism?  Is it all theology or just those that advocate discrimination, represssion, and violence?  (btw, I'm still up for devil's advocate but what you said is what I biggest beef with theism is)

+Forbidden Fruit Surely you expose them to fiction, surely your 8 year old was unable to discern fact from fiction at some point in there life.  What about fantasy?  Can they watch Frozen and dress up as Anna for Halloween?  Is it the relationship between you and your child ala Harris?Why do some fictional things get a reprieve and others dont?

That's a lot of hypotheticals duder.My general answer is: every moment is deserving of it's own unique consideration.

+Joey Florian Is it because it comes faith i.e. belief in a deity?  What if it is just belief based on hope or misunderstanding or miscommunication.  For the speaker, it is conveyed as truth.  What if is it was accepted fact at the time and they continue to say it even though the support has waned e.g. eating fat makes you fat?   Do teenagers who grew up in a faith based house get a pass and then not get a pass later in life?

+Darin Simmons"Are those individuals creating harm or doing evil?"Yes. They give credence to a book of violent, stupid, inhumane fairy tales. They make it look alright to believe in this shit with all the necessary ignorance, infantile wishful thinking and gullibility that comes with it.Religion is socially accepted insanity and ignorance. That is the harm.

+Hitchens Argumentum No, not tired.  I don't remember Hitchens presuming either.So, if I understand you correctly, it's the violent behaviors that most have a bee in your bonnet.  What about non-violent believers of a wizard in the sky.  I'm not talking about the ones who go to church and put money in a jar and are passively identifying themselves with others.  I'm talking about the people who pick up a fairy tale, say that the King James Bible is believable, and live in a non-violent way.  Are those individuals creating harm or doing evil?

+Darin SimmonsThere is something fundamentally wrong with theism and even more with the monotheisms that currently abide in the world since they rely upon and justify ignorance, stupidity, herd mentality and hatred.You don't get to say you are a moderate of that in the same way as people who joined the NSDAP or pledged allegiance to this creed don't get to say, "You know, I read Mein Kampf. This jew-baiting is bad, but I don't adhere to these parts. After all, Hitler did build the Autobahns..."

+Darin Simmons What I am saying is that their is something fundamentally wrong with individuals who believe in ANYTHING that is not based on at best FACT or at worst Logic and Reason. So yes that goes for Santa, Toothe Fairy and FSM! I have two children 8 and 3. I do not expose them to ANY sort of LIES. They know that there is no santa, no toothe fairy and no FSM. They also know that there are no monster in the closet or under their beds. 

+Darin Simmons for me it is any of those *other items as well. If that thing is lent any sort of factual equivalence. I don't hold any sort of beliefs or desire to police people's thoughts. Just what they communicate to other people as fact, or in many cases faith.I don't think most people believe in the tooth fairy. I don't tell my child that stupid story, because there is no reason for it. However, I will gladly play along with make believe and sometimes lie to my child. I don't do these things to teach him about the world though. I do them to protect him in the short-medium turn.I think the same should apply to dealing with other people, et all.

+Darin Simmons You can play devil's advocate with yourself. This isn't a game of semantics. It's a deadly war we're engaged in although still limited to words. Plus, your incredible ignorance regarding the threat of religion is astounding. Comparing beliefs in that with Santa or the Tooth fairy? I don't recall Santa followers going around condemning people for not believing in him or blowing up women reproductive rights clinics or spewing hatefully disgusting things at our LGBT folks even causing some younger ones to kill themselves.How's that? Tired of playing devil's advocate now?

I'm going to play devil's advocate here...+TomFynn +Hitchens Argumentum +Joey Florian So, let's be clear about what your statements are before we dive into them.  If I understand you (pl.) correctly, you assert that there is something fundamentally wrong with individuals who believe in theism and that tolerating their point of view is unacceptable.Just to get the discussion rolling, assuming the above, what about moderate beliefs in other things unfounded e.g. Santa, tooth fairy, FSM?I'm trying to determine is the believing part or the specific doctrine or what exactly that is the issue?

Religion is a poison.  All religious organizations are harmful, even the 'peaceful' ones.  Nobody is entitled to religious belief.I am a Buddhist (secular), but I don't believe I or anyone else should be allowed to spread  religious beliefs to anyone else.  Under any circumstances. Ever.All religions must die.  All followers must be confronted, all their ideas forbidden, all their pasts forgotten.  

Good analogy.

Moderates keep their religions thriving. Whether they admit or even know it or not, moderates are supporting the extremists.

+TomFynn How very true!! And ironically in the past I used a similar analogy with the D Day invasion on the Normandy beaches. I used to say I don't recall any of the allies, using loudspeakers, saying "any good German soldiers out there? You can leave before we start shooting"... 

Tolerating moderate theists is like tolerating moderate Nazis.

Espero pronto poder traducir o doblar algunas conferencias al español.

according to sociology Litvish is it's own group just like Tzdukim and vaysusim, not that they are wrong but they are a religion inside of a religion, this is simple history, always has been this way, it has it's own belief, therefore a proper litvish does not intermarry with a Habad or breslev, there are 200 types of Christianity in America, can you guess how many types of Litvish there are offshoot?

+Reporter There is no such thing as a Litvish Religion. If you are Jewish, then either you are observant or not. Minor differences among Jews does not make for a different religion.

+Ismail Ahmed-Riley abortion is a front to destroy Jewish babies. All the 1st clinics in the 20's were opened in Jewish ghettos in Berlin and Harlem almost near simultaneously.