On Oct. 14, 2008, little Shanice Osbourne was finally be laid to rest 27 months after she was allegedly killed on the day she was aborted alive, July 20, 2006, by ...
//forerunner.com/ccbc/X0019_Three_abortion_docto.html Before the abortion clinic closed for good in 2000, there was much protest activity on the public ...
@bluegrassreb1 That was a very uninformed statement you just made. Every
single woman that has had abortion had done it for a very serious reason.
You think abortion is like a walk in the park? Abortion is extremely
painful and woman hate doing it, it's a very tough decision for them, it's
not like "Oh I'm going to go have sex and then get an abortion!" they cry
over the idea and cry a hell of a lot more during the operation. And you
think abortion is worse than thousands of people being killed?
Pray that you never find yourself on trial for your life in a society that
denies a Higher Law. The existence of the soul is the basis for a theory of
human rights. In an atheistic culture, you would have no higher law to
appeal to when you claim human rights. The right to kill the unborn for the
sake of convenience becomes the selective extermination of adults for the
good of society all on the arbitrary whim of the state. And when faced with
injustice there is no higher court of appeal.
At what point does a mother loose control and also the rights of her body?
You can continue to whine and kick your way through this little fopah but
your problem is that you disregard the woman whose having the child
completely. Look, I'll meet you at least half way in this, I've heard of
things like partial birth abortions, which I think are just retarded,
especially if you're waiting that long to finally do it, but the decision
ultimately lies in the hands of the woman having the child.
Technically, it is a clump of cells, that's exactly, and only, what it is.
It isn't a fully formed human yet. Yes a heart's visible. I doubt
brainwaves are functioning yet, and I doubt there are any fingerprints
either. But I digress, regardless of whatever you think, a woman still has
the right to her own body. Her body is creating that fetus, if she doesn't
feel comfortable having it, she should be able to make her own decision and
shouldn't be harassed by the likes of people like you.
Can you prove there is such a thing as human consciousness? If we are just
a clump of cells, as you say, then what makes my thoughts different than
yours? Why is my consciousness bound up in my own being? Why do I have any
consciousness at all? René Descarte came close to an answer when he wrote:
Cogito ergo sum ("I think therefore I am"). Our thoughts are evidence of a
soul, but evidence for the eternal nature of the soul is derived from the
evidence of things not seen -- or by faith.
Can you prove there is such a thing as a soul? A soul and human rights are
two very different things. And how would you know what an Atheistic culture
would be like? Are you an Atheist? Who are you to speak for all of Atheism?
I don't think you're ever going to realize whose producing that baby and
what significance that entire decision means to her. And what injustice are
you complaining about? You live in America. You got a court ruling over
turned so you could protest 15 feet closer!
Puppies are independent living creatures your analogy doesn't work, no one
is arguing that independent humans should be killed. Contraception is never
100% effective and it's a great burden to have a being live off you for 9
months. Do you think people who need kidneys to live should force those
with two to give up one? Also since you're a woman you have periods - those
are potential babies, doesn't that make you feel bad that ever month a
potential baby is removed from your body.
I'm an Atheist and I can tell you right now that if we lived in such a
culture, I wouldn't care what other people believed. It would be exactly
how it is today, I wouldn't care what faith you preached because it
wouldn't affect me in any way, WHICH IS THE BEAUTY OF MY PERSPECTIVE. It
only bothers me when you try to enforce your beliefs on the rest of society
simply because your deity "commands" it. However that does not warrant
imprisonment or death, that's just irrational.
Well, unless you believe in the human soul that was created in the image of
God, then you are nothing more that a meaningless piece of protoplasm
wandering aimlessly through the void. The biblical view of th human fetus
isn't swayed by how much "development" has taken place. If that were so, we
could limit the rights of people based on how "developed" they are. Instead
we place value on all human souls -- because unlike animals we are the
image of God.
And the h8er gets owned by jcr4runner. Why do the h8ers all claim a child
in poor circumstances is better having never being born? Personal FYI to
ThumperNM....no nation can survive unless the population increases....each
couple needs 2.7 (average) children just to keep the population
level....more children = better economy for the nation as long as the
nation's leaders are honest. Your problem is not excess children, it is
corrupt government.
I like how you label a clump of cells as a baby, and are so blunt about it.
Sidewalk counselors? Is this authorized by the state? Were the sidewalks
built with special ramps for these counselors? My problem is that you can
have your opinion, and base if off of whatever you like, but you don't have
any right to tell other people what to do or how to live their lives -
ESPECIALLY when you're basing it off of your own religious beliefs.
You know, just because it looks like something, doesn't mean it is. Just
because blueprints of a building may look like a building, does not make it
a building. We can do this for weeks, debate back and forth your definition
of what represents a completed human being and at what stage does that
become fact, regardless, a woman has the right to choose and you have no
say in it.
I was arrested three times on the same sidewalk. Sometimes this is what you
have to do. The point is that sidewalk counselors couldn't talk to the
women coming to have their babies killed. I know that babies were saved
because we were able to get the sidewalk back. Money isn't everything --
that's why the abortion clinic owners didn't want us talking to the women.
I'm the most pro-choice (Libertarian) guy in the universe, ...but I think
that Graham Dugas (the guy in this video) is a hero to American freedom. He
is exactly correct about free speech, and he had the balls to stand up for
free speech and jury rights and prove it by getting arrested. Check out his
excellent commentary on jury rights at Lewrockwell(dot)com
At what point does the unborn child have the right to life? 8 weeks? 10
weeks? 3 months? 6 months? 9 months? After birth? According to your logic,
a viable infant could be killed and it's the "right to choose." Certainly,
the law has has say in it. Right now, the law says you can kill your infant
up to nine months of pregnancy in all 50 states.
The difference between clump of cells with no history and no thought and a
thinking clump of cells with a history and an identity is 100% of the
difference. The unthinking clump of cells has no more thought than a cow.
It has only the potential to be human, but is not yet human. Kind of like
most Obama supporters. LOL
I don't have to prove it, it exists and there is evidence for it. Every
living thing on this planet has it's own set of consciousness.
Consciousness does not equal faith however, it equals things such as
rational thought and instinct. "Our thoughts are evidence of a soul" -
Again, good luck proving that in court.
i cant believe we live in a place where women can KILL their unborne
children! why is it considered a choice? murder is murder, and its ur OWN
child! Sick people with no responsibility or morals!! Libs complain bout
1000's dieing in war but they have NO problem with this? stop a heart and
be proud of it!!???!!!
@jcr4runner It is when you claim we'd only know better because of a deity.
Making that claim assumes we're not intelligent or rational enough to
understand that murder is detrimental to our community 'without' religion.
I find it cute that you replied and then blocked me. Typical, but cute. :3
I know what an atheistic culture is like: Christians go to jail and are
even killed for owning a Bible or preaching. In Christian nations it is
recognized that freedom of the conscience is a God given-right because one
can never know where a person is in their journey toward faith.
No, most women don't have an abortion until after eight weeks. Most don't
even know they are pregnant until after six weeks. That's not a clump of
cells, it''s a baby with a heartbeat, brainwaves, fingerprints, etc. We
have an obligation to protect human life.
Is this being complete?Yes.Nothing new will be added from the time of union
of sperm and egg until the death of the old man or woman except growth and
development of what is already there at the beginning. All he needs is time
to develop and mature
yup....but what concerns me the most is if these fine religious folks have
their way and R v W is reversed, we may very well return to the days of the
aseptic illegal back room abortion or, out of desperation, women using an
aseptic coat hanger...
@wrestlingwomanfan If you have any idea on history, if you're protesting,
no matter what you are protesting about, the police is always out to get
you. He's doing what cops have always been doing to protesters whether they
agree with them or not.
Love to know how many children this pus has adopted. Does he work in a
field that cares for and supports the poor and the unwanted? I doubt it,
but it was telling that he was whistling "Dixie", I'll bet he longs for the
days of black servitude.
It's spelled Faux Pax? Lol I feel silly, but it still stands. I am meeting
you half way aren't I? Obviously we're in a "talented debate" here, so a
little thought would be nice now wouldn't it. I still say it's a clump of
cells though.
@rba719 Not so typical actually. You weren't blocked. I am censoring some
of the more lewd comments now so I put everything on comment approval. But
you are free to say what you want barring personal attacks with gross
language.
I happen to know him well because he was my roommate and the answer is yes
to all of the above. He acted as a kind of foster father to a mixed race
child who was the son of a one-time girlfriend as a matter of fact.
"fopah"? Did you mean faux pax? You show some evidence of thought here.
It's also interesting that you are now calling the unborn baby a "child."
That's a huge improvement from the "clump of cells" argument.
This dumb""" as you call him challenged and unjust law and the buffer zone
was overturned. Graham later sued the city of Melbourne for false arrest
and they offered a settlement of a few thousand dollars.
"I can't even mail a letter!" - Abortion clinic "buffer zone" arrest
//forerunner.com/ccbc/X0019_Three_abortion_docto.html Before the abortion clinic closed for good in 2000, there was much protest activity on the public ...
Webster's 11th edition online defines "human being" as "human(n)", and then
defines "human(n)" as "a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) : man;
broadly : hominid". It then defines "man" as : a "bipedal primate mammal
(Homo sapiens) that is anatomically related to the great apes but
distinguished especially by notable development of the brain with a
resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning" or
"person". In what way does the fetus display personhood or abstract reason?
So you are saying 6 to 8 weeks. Most abortions don't occur until 6 weeks.
You'd effectively eliminate about 95 percent of all abortions. The problem
is that youa re givng the woman "the right to choose" until the baby can be
declared human -- but what's to stop her from claiming the same right to
choose to kill her baby? This is what we are dealing with -- through modern
ultrasound and intra-uterine photography, the personhood of the baby has
long been established. People know it is killing.
sigh, yes abortion is bad and no1 is really 4 it, but (in my opinion) a
person has every right to do whatever they want to their own body as long
as it dosent endanger any1 else. these people are harassing people outside
of a business, i wounder how they would like it if a group of people hung
around their small business harassing their customers, bet they would call
the cops 2. heres a thought worry about urselves and leave random people
alone, im sure they r aware of what they r doing.
More results: The clinic owners sued us. Their case didn't survive summary
judgment. The abortion clinic closed and they didn't have enough money to
reestablish elsewhere. There are no abortion clinics in Brevard County,
Florida today. James Pendergraft, an abortionist from Orlando sued us as
well. He also sued the city of Ocala at the same time. He later went to
jail for extortion and lying under oath. Their lawyer, Roy Lucas (the Roe
v. Wade lawyer) went into hiding and died of cancer.
They said he was arrested for being in the "buffer zone." Problem is that
they only arrested people who were known to be "pro-life" and none of those
arrested were named in the injunction. The injunction said in so many words
that if you were pro-life you couldn't come within 35 feet of the abortion
clinic. There were a series of court cases over this that are difficult to
follow. Bu I hope you agree it is ideological discrimination and a
violation of the freedom of assembly and speech.
"It's the American way to save babies." I almost laughed, really. You are a
fool, the buffer zone is there, FOR ANY PROTEST, to avoid conflict between
sides. I myself have acted in a few protests, (Mainly against the Church of
Scientology.). If you're not going to obey the rules and then whine about
the rules later with things like "Discrimination!" and "It's my right as an
American!" then why protest at all? You might as well do something serious
so you don't look so foolish in court.
People known to be pro-abortion and on the side of the abortion clinic were
arrested. Only Christian pro-life activist were arrested. It was a public
sidewalk. The final result is that the judge who convicted 120 people of
violations died of a massive heart attack. The courts stopped convicted
people not named in the injunction. The police stopped arresting people.
The pro-life sidewalk counselors got the sidewalk back -- due to Graham's
(and a few others' ) challenge to the law.
Most people would be astonished to know that pro-abortionists have
committed nearly 500 murders since 1966 - and this does not include live
birth abortions. For example, a pro-abortion advocate and Satanist, Eileen
Janezic killed 51-year old pro-life activist minister and radio talk show
host Jerry Simon - shooting him through a window of his home. After killing
Simon, Janezic held police at bay with a pistol for six hours while
spouting quotes from Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible.
Yes, I join you in deploring that. But what of the pro-life activists who
have been murdered, attacked and threatened. And what of the 50 million
babies murdered? I'd also like to point out that like the Civil Rights
movement of the 1960s, the vast majority of pro-life leaders proclaim
non-violence. The Civil Rights movement was rife with acts of violence.
Many more people were killed over the issue of Civil Rights than abortion.
Does that make the Civil Rights movement wrong?
This guy is a hero to free speech and freedom of assembly. To hell with
those police! ...And I say that as a pro-choice atheist Libertarian. This
guy has every right to strongly criticize everyone who attempts to get an
abortion. If he convinces them to abort the abortion, then his ideas won,
not his fists. More ower to him. Sadly, his side is totally on the side of
truth and justice in this case, even though I believe they are not on any
such side when it comes to abortion.
Interesting NEWSPEAK: Killing an unborn baby = A HUMAN RIGHT The defense of
life = HARASSMENT I've always found it ironic that pro-death advocates use
"human rights" as an argument when according to our founding documents
these rights are given by our CREATOR and are not to be taken away ...
"among these are LIFE, liberty an the pursuit of happiness." When did our
Creator ever ordain the right to an abortion? This is a modern humanist
contrivance, not a basic human right.
Who would have ever thought that it would be considered wrong to say it's
not right to kill children. Oh...yeah..I forgot. Dehumanize the group you
wish to oppress and then you can justify killing them. Same thing that was
done to blacks not so long ago. White people supporting this mess I can
understand...they have a long history of murdering groups they deem weaker.
I just can not understand a black person who can't see through the illusion
of a 'woman's choice'.
Honestly, the definition of "human being" doesn't interest me much. If
there is no consciousness capable of suffering, then killing a lump of
cells that may technically be considered a human being is no more a tragedy
to me than, say, uprooting a carrot. On the other hand, I do have a very
keen interest in minimizing or eliminating the *suffering* of *all*
sentient beings, regardless of whether they are human or not. Suffering is
what matters, not semantics.
Abortion on demand should apply until there are brain-waves and heart-beats
in the unborn baby. The baby would be declared alive. After that time, if
an abortion is performed, it would then be considered to be murder. This
makes everyone mad...but I think this is the only practical solution...even
though I think abortion is almost always wrong. When an adult's heart and
brain cease functioning...they are declared dead. This shouldn't be hard...
You have a choice with whom to sleep with, and the choice to discuss what
actions both parties would take should a pregnancy occur. You have a choice
to carry to term and adopt. You have a choice not to have sex, or to take
steps to prevent pregnacy and STCs (Sexually transmitted viruses) A woman
has a choice not to offer a guy penile stimulation under the guise of love.
Abortion stops a beating heart. That is murder.
In 1995, the out-spoken pro-abortionist Lavern Ward murdered Debra Evans
and her ten-year-old daughter. He hacked the unborn child out of Debra's
body. Then he kidnapped Debra's seven-year-old son, stabbing him to death.
In 1998, pro-abortionist Byron Looper, who was running against pro-life
state Senator Tommy Burks for a political office, shot Burks through the
left eye with a large-caliber pistol, killing him.
Still these are "reported" cases, not actual arrests and convictions. The
M.O. of abortion clinics is to call the police for any reason at all. At
Aware Woman, they would call out the bomb squad when the UPS man left a box
by the wrong door. I was accused of stalking when I went to an
abortionist's house TWICE to try to interview her for an article I was
writing. Those bogus calls figure into their statistics.
It is a felony to interfere with delivery of the U.S. Mail. I also believe
it is a felony to interfere with access to a mail receptacle. The officer
should be investigated by the Postal Inspectors. it doesn't matter now but
y'all should have looked into it. In any similar situation, please
investigate your rights and the laws concerning the U.S. Postal Service.
Every tool should be used to defend the unborn.
I could claim that none of the three instances when abortionists were
murdered at abortion facilities were perpetrated by TRUE pro-lifers -- but
a few lone nut jobs. On the other hand, there have been hundreds of
homicides committed by abortion advocates. These are dark people who kill
for a living so what is the big surprise there? Three, five, or 500? It
pales in comparison to 50 million abortions.
"...pro-abortionist Byron Looper, who was running against pro-life state
Senator Tommy Burks for a political office, shot Burks through the left eye
with a large-caliber pistol, killing him." I remember that case.....there
was political rivalry that turned bitter but was unrelated to either
candidates stand on the abortion issue..... and further ....there was no
evidence of it...
False....no there will not be arrests for disturbing the peace of civil
disobedience or most violations....like traffic tickets....most Class C
misdemeanors are even dismissed unless in cases of repeated
offences....Class A misdemearnors or felonies on the other hand.... this is
an area that I have researched for legal defense and prosecution....the
numbers are not contrived.
"Most people would be astonished to know that pro-abortionists have
committed nearly 500 murders since 1966 - and this does not include live
birth abortions." I found where you have copy/paste this your info....you
have no credible citations..the website doesn't have citations either..this
is the type of hyperbole that discredits the pro-life movement
Some pro-choicers have actually expressed a desire that the newly improved
ultrasound technology be suppressed...less it "Challenge a woman's right to
choose" In other words...lets suppress evidence, because it might you
wrong. But who careS? Liberals will ALWAYS support any measure that
minimizes personal responsibility for one's actions...
"Lavern Ward murdered Debra Evans and her ten-year-old daughter. He hacked
the unborn child out of Debra's body. Then he kidnapped Debra's
seven-year-old son, stabbing him to death." yep.....I remember....and found
it on the CNN website....it''s not abortion related....she had a bunch of
kids named after biblical figures....and he was a nut
I won't argue with you about your statistics except to say that these are
the claims of abortionists. I owned a house across the street from an
abortion clinic for seven years. The owners constantly claimed about
instances of violence. In the entire time I was there, I witnessed no
vandalism, nor was there a single arrest or conviction.
@jacobatf79 Not religion. Just tyrants who want to get their way, and use
whatever excuse they can get their hands on. Religion, God, "redistribution
of wealth", "fairness", "Racial Purity", revenge, or even just pure rage.
Religion isn't to blame for those atrocities. Unchecked government,
however, *IS* to blame.
@18000molestedboys There are christian, pro-life people in those labs
searching for answers and cures, however; although God uses other things
too, the only healer we have is Jesus Christ, if we would just trust in
Him. He is no deity, He is the God and He is the God Who loves you more
than anything;)
As of May, 2003, there were 400,000 frozen embryos stored in fertility
clinics in America. Most are the property of the couples who placed them
there. I don't see any of these fetus fetishists trying to emancipate these
frozen "human beings" from their status as chattel property - slaves.
It was actually HIS mailbox -- it's in the "buffer zone" and we would be
arrested if we lingered there. I am the owner of the house. BTW: Graham won
his case, he sued the city for false arrest and they settled, and then the
buffer zone injunction was eventually ignored by the police.
Once there are brain waves and heart beats, the baby would be considered to
be a separate and distinct human being. The mother would not have the right
to decide to kill another human being. Again, this is a practical
solution...but I consider nearly all abortions to be wrong.