In October of 2009, an estimated 75000-100000 people gathered on the Capital Mall in Washington, D.C. for the "March for Equality" supporting gay marriage ...
Counterarguments:
1.) (It violates Judeo-Christian teachings.) Citing religion is wrong.
America is diverse, so why should we only have Judeo-Christian foundations?
Gay marriage is a social and legal issue, not a religious one.
2.) (It is unnatural. Men and women complement each other to procreate.)
Being gay is biologically natural. (Who chooses to be gay?) Procreation is
not our society's number one priority, as human population growth is
already extreme enough. (Look at the J curve.) Since gay people are
minorities, their contribution to overall human procreation would not be
noticeable, anyway.
3.) (World Religions value marriage and family.) Citing religion is wrong.
Even it it's right, consider the following. Is gay marriage not considered
"marriage"? It is. Can gays not have families via adoption? They definitely
can.
4.) (Heterosexual marriage is a foundation and has been a tradition since
the beginning of human history.) A tradition cannot be proven to be right.
In our current time, we need to go back to mend that foundation to adapt to
our new social order.
5.) (No country has ever made it a norm for family life.) Gays are
minorities, and minorities cannot be the norm. However, minorities can be
accepted, as the speaker has noted. (He attacked his own faulty logic!)
Just because it's not a norm, does that prove gay marriage to be wrong? No.
6.) (It's harmful, selfish, and our children are denied a mother and
father.) If you can call gay marriage harmful and selfish, can't you call
heterosexual marriage harmful and selfish, too? According to the speaker's
"logic", yes. What's the difference between the two? It's just a gender
difference. ("Because if you're another gender, your arrangement is TOTALLY
harmful and selfish!") Children of same-sex couples still are guaranteed
two parents. Does gender matter? Socially and legally, it does not.
(According to the speaker, wouldn't heterosexual marriage with a potential
for divorce also be harmful, selfish, and unfair for the children?)
7.) (It redefines marriage and opens doors to socially unacceptable
arrangements.) Redefining marriage is exactly what is needed in our evolved
society! Saying that gay marriage leads to polyamory, bestiality, etc. is
fallacious because the relationship is not truly causal.
8.) (It is a radical experiment and destabilizes family.) Being gay is not
an "experiment". It's something that happens naturally in one's mind. Also,
how does marriage destabilize family? Isn't marriage the foundation of
family? Without marriage, how can one legally have a family?
9.) (It causes STDs.) Disease prevention is a personal responsibility. If a
gay personal gets an STD, that's his problem. The government can't say,
"You might get and STD, so you can't get married!" Heterosexual
relationships also cause STDs. Simply existing on this planet makes you
vulnerable to countless diseases. Is existing wrong, therefore? No.
10.) (The majority of people oppose gay marriage.) There was a time where
the majority of people opposed women wearing pants! Is wearing pants wrong?
No. People may not favor gay marriage, but that gives no proof as to why
its wrong. Imagine a world in which gays were the majority. What if they
said these same things about straight marriage? Would the speaker be happy?
How many people opposed Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.? Did that make him
wrong? No. Also, the fact that most people are decent and hardworking
doesn't make the argument more correct. By this reasoning, the speaker is
prone to making argumentum ad hominem tu quoque fallacies.
+Ada Liang I'm glad you're thinking. This means that you're informed and inspired. (I hope you lead yourself in a personal transformation, too.) I actually filmed a video about the issue of gay marriage. When editing is finished, it will be uploaded.Your rebuttal shows that you have put in some time to think.Tomczak's entire set of arguments is based not on logic, but on religion, fallacies, and sticktoitiveness. Most people, after being informed of the counterarguments, would agree that gay marriage is not wrong. However, as you point out, you cannot say that it is "exactly what we need," either. (It definitely should be allowed, but should we promote it?) This biggest case for not promoting it is the about children deserving parents of both genders.While from a common sense standpoint, it seems logical to say children deserve parents of both gender, is it really a necessity? Is the lack of one gender not already pushing children to go out of their ways to find role models that display characteristics of that missing gender? In our social world, parents are not the only role models. Plus, many gay/lesbian marriages are formed between a more masculine person and a more feminine person. (For example, most lesbian couples include a "femme" woman and a "butch" one.) From another perspective, newborns do not deserve anything. People who do good deserve good, and vice versa. However, what good has a child done? A newborn who has not benefited anyone does not deserve good or bad, but rather should live with the conditions to which he/she is born into. (He/she has actually caused the mother a great deal of pain!) Dante supports this perspective. In the Divine Comedy, infants who die young actually go to Inferno, not Paradiso or Purgatorio.What's important is that the USA has legalized gay marriage. We are another step closer to the optimum level of equality that good, moral humans deserve in the modern world.
Rebuttal:1.)You are half right. People should not use religion as the main reason, as weare defined by the separation of church and state, and moreover, not all peoplecome from the Judeo-Christian foundations. However, I believe it is also areligious issue, as "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment ofreligion.." Not only does it attack Judeo-Christian Values, it also attacks othermajor world religions, a major one being Islam.2.)Being gay is not completely biological(i.e., genetics, etc.) as proven by thefollowing studies. So being biologically natural would be, as Merriam-Webster'sOnline Dictionary tells us in definition 2a "being in accordance with ordetermined by nature" in the biological sense. Procreation may not be oursociety's number one priority, but as a race and species, as an organism, we needto pass on our genes, in which we do so by procreation. And also by "extremeenough", by what standard are you comparing the growth rate by? Also, whether ornot gay people are minorities or not, as a "couple" they cannot reproduce anyway,so your point in it "would not be noticeable" does not make a lot of sense.//www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1993-homosexual-
orientation-in-twins.html//www.mygenes.co.nz/download.htm3.)Again, you are almost right. gay "marriage" is indeed considered marriagelegally and in the eyes of the law. When religions say that homosexual "marriage"is not "marriage", they do not mean legally, but in the light of their religionit cannot be "marriage". And yes, almost anyone can adopt children and start alegal family.4.) Yes, traditions cannot always be right. Yes, as a society we should beflexible. But the statement "In our current time, we need to go back to mend thatfoundation to adapt to our new social order." is not an argument against thestatement you are trying to argue against. It is only a conclusion of what peoplefor the legalization of gay "marriage" could say.5.) Your argument here is "Just because it is not the norm, the minority beliefis not proven wrong." Per se it is correct, but it is a weak argument and becauseof this argument, beliefs have other evidence to support why this belief is trueand that other beliefs are not as true. But perhaps something is the norm becauseit is wrong?6.) Yes, divorce is often unfair to the children(heterosexual marriages andhomosexual "marriages"). If the parents are not conducting and raising thechildren as best as to their abilities and instead only spend their time awayfrom the children, then yes it is selfish and harmful. The difference betweenheterosexual marriage and homosexual "marriage" is between the sexes. Contrary toyour opinions, yes, the sexes of the parents to matter socially as childrendeserve to have male role models and female role models to imitate as well as thefemininity and the masculinity of both sexes. A homosexual "marriage" simply doesnot include that as part of the package.7.) I do not see how redefining marriage is "exactly" what we need in thissociety. For the sake of example, will it solve global warming? Will it stop Islamic terrorists around the world? Will it solve malnourishment? If yes, thisthinking will require a far stretch of "If's" and "Then's". It will not solvethose problems, and therefore not the thing that is "exactly needed" in oursociety.8.)Being gay is not an experiment, but allowing for "gay" marriage is anexperiment. This destabilizes family as, in Point 6, that children deserve tohave a parent in both sexes. As a family being the foundation of society, beingas that is where children are raised and subsequently become the workforce ofsociety. Yes, one can't start a family without marriage.9.) Correct argument. I agree.10.)I have made a few points into why gay "marriage" is wrong. A world where gay"marriage" was the norm would have a completely different history than us and iwould imagine if one were heterosexual, then one would be called "ancient","old", "beast-like" because having kids in gay "marriages" are not possiblewithout modern technology. Modern day technology would be, cloning, invitrofertilization. they would be called beast-like because that society would seethat past cultures(most often seen as barbaric) were heterosexual and animals,are also heterosexual. Also, just because people oppose you does not mean you areright. Being disliked does not make you the stereotypical "oppressed group thatprotects truth". Some ideas and people are disliked because they do hold falseand bad and maybe unjustified discriminatory ideas.
If your born gay name any of the genes or genetics that make your gay. Theirs non! Scientists have attempted to find them but they haven't found any. :)
I think if you want to be gay than fine but don't spread being gay to other
people that wouldn't be influenced by it because if its true and you are
born gay and its not a choice than let it be. You shouldn't teach people
and kids to believe its ok. I "love" how everything is gay now and people
across the media are popping up everywhere being praised like its some type
of achievement to be gay and they deserve special privileges. I'm not
vastly religious but there just something telling me this is wrong.
+Dee Kay You can't "spread" being gay. It's genetically inherited. Your comment is confused and disorganized. Gay is not a lifestyle, and it isn't a choice.
You can't just baptize someone to be gay like you would baptize someone to be Christian. You can't go up to a gay and force the straight lifestyle on them and they are magically straight. You can't go up to a straight person and force the gay lifestyle on them and have them magically be gay. You are born with your sexuality, and it doesn't normally change.
These are in no way valid excuses. These are fucking bible quotes. I'm not
saying all Christians are homophobic, but the ones who are need to shut
their fucking mouths and stop quoting bullshit. Have your own reasons or
gtfo. #lovewins
You can't tell if someone is scared of something by what they've posted on the Internet, especially when you can't even say you've never known them personally. You're making preconsumptions.
Believe me, a lot of them aren't. You're talking to a Christian. No Christian is afraid of another person, we fear God, but not other people. That makes no sense
This still didnt answer my question. We all know why stealing is wrong, it
robs people of their most prized posesion and earnings. We all know why
killing is wrong, it ends a life and destroys the love ones of the
deceased. We even know why lying is wrong, it decieves people which can
alter an outcome of belief. All these things can hurt and destroy lives,
they are wrong for it causes havoc and distress to lives. I still am not
understanding why loving someone, or being gay is wrong and considered a
sin. Please i am not trying to be hateful, but simply trying to understand
both points of view, please respond in a kind, non-hateful manner. Thank
you.
Reese, Divorce and infidelity destabilizes the working family. So you are also saying that single straight individuals who have no intent of having children destabilize the "normal family"?
+Reese Ers OMG I hate comments like this. You think you know everything but YOUR NOT GAY so how the FUCK do you know that 'love wins is inaccurate?????' Omg STRAIGHT people that talk as if they know the ins and out of homosexuality need to SIT. DOWN. You can read all the books you want, bible, harry potter TAKE YOUR PICK. You can read as many blogs, watch as many videos but I am the living breathing article and when I tell you a fact about homosexuality you are going to sit down and say yes sir, and not talk as if you know everything about homosexuality. Your not gay. Sit down.
+Reese Ers You are wrong. Not all people want to get married and have kids. I am bisexual and you passing off my love as false and my feelings as invalid make you an asshole. EVERY SINGLE CHILD THAT IS RAISED BY TWO PARENTS OF THE SAME GENDER IS WANTED. Every gay parent must plan ahead to adopt the child, get a sperm donor, etc. Every child is wanted. Don't get me started on the unplanned pregnancies heterosexual couples have. I'm not sexually attracted to my friends either, but I am sexually attracted to my girlfriend. You have not experienced being sexually attracted to the same sex so you can't say "that doesn't mean I have to have a sexual relationship with them." Go cry about it while my girlfriend and I go celebrate that same sex marriage is now legal in all 50 states. LOVE WINS. #50statesofgay
Because it destablizes the working family where love between a man and a woman leads to a family and they have the right necessities to raise children gayness ends the normal family and doesn't work. It doesn't work in nature either 2 gay animals don't raise children it only works with man and women. Also you can love someone but not have to bring that into a sexual relationship when did it have to be that way. I have many friends that I am thankful for and love but that doesn't mean I have to have a sexual relationship with them. When they say love wins that is inaccurate. We all have the power to build love and friendship when biologically, and morally does a friendship have to become sexual.
Scott Walker’s Family Thinks He's Wrong On Gay Marriage
While on the 2016 campaign trail, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker was asked about the recent gay marriage ruling by the Supreme Court. Governor Walker ...
They think that he is wrong only on gay marriage? I wish they will admit
that is is wrong about all of his policies. There are a lot more important
issues than gay marriage.
+Michael Willuz True, but not many issues make you look like a total asshole, like actively being against gay marriage makes you seem like a bad person.
These straw man arguments aren't helping anyone Cenk makes me just want to
jump over to the other side and say something like they had exactly the
same rights. Gay guys could marry women just like straight men could and
lesbians could marry men just like straight women can, exact same rights.
+YOYOdaMOOSE why would a gay man go out of his way to marry a woman? Do you know what happens when that is pulled? Both people get hurt (mostly the female, or in the reverse setting, the male)
+Baloo Dumptruck(I'm playing devils advocate since cenk is piling on so much) Doesn't matter you still had the right to marry a woman just like straight dudes could marry a woman so the rights were the same
+YOYOdaMOOSE " Gay guys could marry women just like straight men could and lesbians could marry men just like straight women can, exact same rights."Except gay guys are not attracted to vaginas, and lesbians are not attracted to penis. The site of boobs/vaginas makes me throw up, so why would I waste my time marring someone whom I dislike physically/emotionally?
+Suika Nine Well, since stupidity and ignorance are intellectual concepts and have no actual physical form you can't LITERALLY see it oozing out of his pores, but I get what ya mean.
Same Sex Marriage. Right? or Wrong?
You can agree or disagree and still love and live in peace.
+Meade Vlog channelSodom and Gomorrah – The homosexual acts that ended up before the city was destroyed when the angels came, they were acts of violence and rape. They were not committed, same-sex relationship. And I’ve gotta say this right in here too. I care about committed, faithful relationships.
+Meade Vlog channelWhat if some of us are Pagans, Buddhist, Hindu, or Atheist. Are we forced to believe in Christian dogma?The Bible advocate slavery, genocide, rape, and abuse.No matter how you put it, you are endorsing bigotry and hate.Here in the USA we live in a secular culture......not a religious Theocracy.Our country was founded on the right to reject religion. There can be no Freedom of Religion without freedom FROM it.God allowed slavery? How hateful. If God is Love then I fail to see itWhy is it good to be a slave? We hate your god, gee wonder why?
+Meade Vlog channel Equal rights for gays is NOT perversion, it's EXPANDING the rights of people. You're pushing your idiotic religion on people who are too intelligent to fall into that bullshit called the "Bible".The Bible is filled with talking animals, says polygamy is ok, says it's ok to marry your cousin, and that a woman has to marry her rapist. It also says that getting married after divorce is adultery! Does that sound like "moral absolute truth?"You can't pick and choose what you want to believe.
If you want to believe homosexuality is immoral, fine. Believe that. But morality is subjective and you DO NOT have the right to impose your morality onto the lives of other people. Plain and simple.
Gay marriage is a Trojan Horse for society. And you are an anti-religious
bigot. Marriage traditionally was always consummated with sex on the
wedding night, and not gay forms of sex. You have changed it into some
simple romantic or emotional feeling. Interracial marriage was not an
argument about what marriage was, it was an argument about who could get
married. What you are doing is changing a long held view of marriage.
+ace8842 Wrong Wrong Wrong. The Old Testament argurement means nothing. How can we be living in New testament when the book Timothy says otherwise?3:16-17All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. So that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped forevery good work.And how about this one Matthew 5:17-20“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.Sorry but you have no case.
+ace8842 No You Christians are the Trojan Horse for society. Christianity is AN AGENDA geared towards profit, mass dictatorship, and strength in numbers & global empowerment...which has already been proven centuries ago!You threaten us with eternal damnation just because we don't agree with you.
+ace8842 "Second, we are under New Testament law,"Timothy 3:16-1716 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. 17 So that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. "I don't hate anyone" Bullshit! You hate gays because they are NOT like you. Talking about their "Gay agenda" telling them that they can't have any rights because of a book, comparing them to the Trojan horse. That is hate to the MAX.
Mr. Sports, you are showing your lack of knowledge of the Bible by bringing up shellfish. First off, the dietary laws were done away with later in the Old Testament. Second, we are under New Testament law, the new covenant, not the Old Covenant with Israel that involved animals sacrifices and such.I don't hate anyone. I think to judge the rightness and wrongness of actions. It is only wrong to judge by outward appearance, material wealth, or to hypocritically judge when you are committing the same exact sin.
+ace8842 You mean how you are an anti-gay bigot? No wonder people are fleeing religion. If "Christians" are such obnoxious pricks like you, who can blame them?And interracial marriage is an argurement because almost all of the same thing were said about it. It was called "Perverted", people calmed that god didn't want us to mix races, they also calm that it would create chaos (What's next? Marrying children? Marrying Animals?); they also calmed it was bad foe children and that they were not being discreminated against because they could already marry within their own race just like everyone else. The Bible also says its an abomination to eat anything from the sea that does not have scales so eating shrimp in an abomination. I think the Bibles definition of abomination needs to be researched because I love shrimp. If eating shrimp is on the same level as being gay then being gay is really not a big deal.And you think its right to judge and hate people? Remember let he who is without sin cast the first stone. If you think its right to hate and be a bigot you’re dead wrong you ignorant silly child
+ace8842 What happened to "Love thy neighbors" and "equal rights"? If homosexuality is exemption to that, then don't call yourself a HUMAN.
Justin Smith Video Editorial: SBS wrong to dump anti same-sex marriage ad?
SBS decided not to broadcast an anti same-sex marriage ad during its telecast of the 37th Sydney Mardi Gras on Sunday, and have come under fire for the move ...